serotonin

[charlie]

During my search about ketogenic diets I have found a new chat programme on BT Yahoo groups and found a Fructose malabsorbtion one, am waiting to be accepted on it but noticed on their welcome page they have mentioned that serotonin absorbtion or deficiency may be a problem. Now this is important in brain function so have looked into it, gone a bit cross-eyed as very technical but is an interesting idea. I'm wondering if that is one thing they tested in megs spinal tap ( answers from which still haven't come - huff and puff).
Has anyone else come across anything about this, it may explain why megs seems worse in the winter than the summer.
Will pass on more info once I get access for this new group incase others want to access it.

[CJSculpts]

Don't remember the source but I know that, in some of my research, I definitely read that the FI blocks the body's ability to absorb serotonin. And, yes, this explains a lot.

[elilly]

I found this:
Another symptom of fructose malabsorption occurs a few days after fructose is ingested. The fructose built up in the lower intestine may bond with tryptophan, so that it is also prevented from being absorbed. Tryptophan is an amino acid that produces melotonin and serotonin. Melotonin helps regulate sleep, and serotonin is associated with mood. The lack of these neurotransmitters can cause sleep issues, difficulty concentrating, fatigue, irritability, anxiety, and depression.

[chrisnyc]

wow, very interesting. elily, would you mind sharing the source of that reference? love to check that out.

[elilly]

Here are a few:
journals.lww.com/jpgn/Fulltext/2005/05000/Malabsorption_of_Carbohydrates_and_Depression_in.6.aspx

www.springerlink.com/content/x520g554t7m209m1/

Also, if you google "fructose" and "serotonin", you'll ge pages of hits.

[charlie]

I'm going to follow up this tryptophan idea, I have found a new Yahoo group in Australia for Fructose malabsorbtion so may start 2 timing you lot!!, when I've worked out the http address I'll post it as it seems a very useful site for malabsorbtion info. As they haven't decided for definate which Megs has I thought I would start googling malabsorbtion as well. I thought she was more likely to have HFI because of all the health effects but now newer info on malabsorbtion is showing alot of her symptoms too, and the tryptophan idea especially, having just gone through another week of sleepless nights, not settling till 11 pm and struggling to get her going in the morning I will print out the sheet on tryptophan and march up to the docs with a reluctant Megs behind me!!!! If you google tryptophan into wikipedia it comes up with really interesting stuff and loads of Megs symptoms.

[elilly]

From what research I've done, it seems that both HFI and fructose malabsorption have issues with serotonin, tryptophan etc. In order to bypass the issue, you could try giving melatonin at night to help aid sleep induction. We did this with Graham for a while to help him when tryptophan depletion was still an issue. Most Drs will look at amino acid levels in the blood or serum but what you really need to look at is the urine level. If your body only has enough to keep blood levels at a low normal, then you won't "spill" any into the urine. Thus, low levels in urine indicate that there is truly a need for supplementation.

[charlie]

Wow, thanks for that, I'll take all this to the docs. Got to something. They used to produce a milk here called bedtime milk which was taken from the cows very early in the mornings and was supposed to be rich in melatonin but they seemed to have stopped producing it now. Sleep, anything that brings it on, yes please. Maybe I should just take it and sleep through her wide awake bits.

[elilly]

We used the 2 mg melatonin sublinguals with Graham. Worked like a charm every time! He still sometimes asks why he dosn't have to take his "bedtime vitamin" anymore!
Edited to add: I just wanted to let you know that our Drs thought that I was crazy. No one believed that there was a connection between the lack of sleep, irritability etc and fructose intolerance. I knew that something was "off" and began to do melatonin etc on my own.

[CK]

Thank you for this information. I have the worst time getting to sleep. I have talked to my doctors about this, but they didn't know what the cause of it was.

[chrisnyc]

Thank you elilly. That is fascinating. What I am wondering is if the same would hold true for people with HFI. From what I understand from the articles it says that with FM, fructose ends up in the bowel tract because of an "impaired duodenal fructose transport". I do not know if HFI-ers have this problem. In HFI fructose is converted by fructokinase (is that the "transport"?) into fructose 1 phosphate. A non-hfi-er has an enzyme (aldolase B) which then breaks down the fructose 1 phosphate. Since hfi-ers don't have the enzyme, we end up with a buildup of fructose 1 phosphate and THAT is what causes all the problems for us. (excess fructose 1 phosphate interrupts many processes including the body's production of glucose).
Fred, Julie, Colormist? Can anyone with a solid understanding of HFI respond to this?
I mean clearly depression is an issue, but not sure if this is this why for us- if it is, you can bet I'll be supplementing tryptophan!

[elilly]

I'll have to look into the actual scientific pathway for why this also affects HFI'ers. But, if most of us have diarrhea as a symptom, wouldn't it make sense that the body is trying to rid itself of the toxic byproducts of fructose ingestion, then other useful things are lost (ie tryptophan, Mg, etc)?
For my son, he gets extra zinc, magnesium, B12 and a few other minerals and vitamins. I cannot say whether he needs these extra nutrients as a result of the HFI or his gluten and casein free diet, but his Drs do know that he needs them

[colormist]

I have no idea. I was under the impression that the kidneys flush out any excess fructose that we unintentionally digest during any given day. I think we'd all be as big as Violet Beauregarde (when she ate the three-course gum) if we didn't eventually get rid of the fructose.

[esmee]

I want to add two things to this discussion.

1) there is a fascinating book my Dr. Gershon titled The Second Brain (which is the gut) and he says that 90% of all serotonin is produced in the gut and this is why so many people have "gut reactions" to stress, as stress really affects serotonin production (if I remember correctly). So, it makes perfect sense that anyone with DFI/FM would definitely have serotonin deficiency symptoms. I am not sure what this means for folks with HFI.

2) i am not sure how the unprocessed fructose 1-phosphate is delt with in the absence of aldolase B, but if HFI-ers cannot preak down fructose all the way, then they probably are not liberating all of the calories it contains. I have eated quite a lot of food all my life (most of spent as a vevetarian and vegan (high fructose) and have never had any kind of weight problem. It will be interesting to see if this changes with the elimination of fructose from my diet.

esmée ♥

[ukbill]

My 2 penny worth of info..

1/. The human gut has as much nervous tissue as is in a cats brain or so I've been told.. (now think on that! Don't swallow a bird or a mouse otherwise all hell could break out!) therefore our guts have the ability to think for themselves.

This is why I have to take Colofac once or twice a day to calm it down and stop it going into spasmodic (sorry wrong word spell checker let me down) attack.

After years of damage done to my gut having to deal with fructose and sorbitol.

2/. The breakdown of Glucose in the brain releases Serotonin too this is why we feel so good after a meal particularly if we have been hungry before eating.

For us with HFI the "hit" of eating pure glucose is like a strong illegal drug boosting our serotonin levels which are likely to be naturally below the levels of "normal" people without HFI due to the fact that our blood glucose levels are often slightly lower than normal people as our bodies deal with the small amounts of Fructose we inadvertently eat in our diets.

Now the new information about Serotonin and Melatonin being "trapped" in the gut is very interesting.

It would also explain my odd sleeping habits. I work nights and only get to sleep after 4am even on nights off if I go to bed earlier then I'm awake at 4am till 6am when I drop off again till 1 or 2pm.. Perhaps I should look to getting some melatonin as well