Tolerance

[colormist]

How is it that each of us can tolerate certain things and not others . I have looked at some of the recipes and want to vomit just looking at them. Like cakes and cookies? I cannot even stand the smell of sweet things. My mother used to burn vanilla candles that would send me into spinning ,mouthwatering nausea! Yuck! Veggies are not so good for me in any fashion. I get the shivers and make that face...yeah I bet you ALL know the one ,when you eat something that you shouldn't have! Peanut butter or nuts in general are out too! --- Sherri

Sherri asked this question in the diagnosed thread, but I didn't want to gunk up that thread with a non-diagnosed response.

I think this has A LOT to do with how early an individual is diagnosed. If over the years you find yourself repeatedly exposed to fructose and keep attempting to eat it without success, you'll keep getting nauseated when presented with sweet-tasting treats. You go into a rage-fit that would make the Hulk jealous when exposed to someone heating up cinnamon rolls in the office toaster oven. (Cinnamon rolls and cake are my two absolutely hated sweets.)

However, if you're diagnosed upon birth (or shortly thereafter), then you don't develop that intense hatred and loathing for all sweet-tasting, sweet-smelling objects. You might not HATE sweets and be delighted when you're presented with a HFI-safe cookie.

On one hand you have an excellent defense system against all things fructose, on the other you can enjoy fructose-free sweet tasting treats. I have no idea which is better, but merely writing about cinnamon rolls and cake has made me nauseated.

[meaniejean]

This is interesting to me because my sons have very different responses to sugar-containing foods:

Sawyer was very sick starting at a few months old due to ingestion of fruit juice and sorbitol-containing medicines to try to alleviate his constipation (both Rx by the docs). It took awhile to figure things out. He will hand me foods and say "don't like - sugar in it." And he is only 21 months old!

Calvin, on the other hand, essentially lived on breastmilk until he was 18 months old. His illness after starting fructose-containing foods was much more low-grade and chronic than Sawyer's. He always preferred foods like avocado and plain tofu or black beans, but he also never had the chance to get so sick off of a sweet food to develop a strong dislike of anything sweet, so he actually likes all the dextrose stuff.

In fact, it has come to the point that if Calvin can't get enough of something and Sawyer won't touch it we can pretty much bet that it has sugar in it - we might not know if it is dextrose or not, but we do know that it is sweetened in some way.

The theory behind the aversion to sweets and fruits in HFI is that the extreme illness associated with ingestion leads to avoidance of the food. If the extreme illness doesn't happen, the aversion does not either. And internal damage doesn't do the trick - you have to experience pain, nausea, vomiting or diarrhea for your body to make the connection. Also, if your reaction is delayed, your body is less likely to make the connection and therefore you are less likely to develop an aversion.

I think Fred is probably right about the different mutations. I would guess that it would also have something to do with where you were most lacking in Aldolase B - kidney, liver or intestines.

People with malabsorption could probably have the aversion as well, as long as they got sick enough with ingestion and it was a life-long malabsorption (which is much less common).

[charlie]

This is an interesting subject, I'm getting tempted to start drawing up some research questionaires when my life becomes a little saner to try and get some more compact info on fructose related problems.
Megs really doesn't like pastry no matter how carefully I make it and what I put in it, I think the word fructans and pastry has been bandied around so I googled it and came up with this website;
www.sillyyak.com.au/fructose-malabsorption.html
I'll highlight the passage in the next post as I can't do it in one.

[charlie]

People suffering from fructose malabsorption may also have difficulty digesting fructans, which are long-chain fructose molecules. Wheat contains particularly high levels of fructans.

People with fructose malabsorption allergies often experience symptoms after eating wheat, therefore many people with this condition choose to live on a low-wheat or wheat-free diet.

Could this be our final answer, Megs does have alot of wheat in her diet. I'm going to post about a new diet idea I have separately so as not to confuse this thread but hey the plot thickens. Fred however did your poor mum cope, and you Tammy in "the olden days" before the internet, I think they are both saints to have done so well.

[lisa]

Nathan used to vomit and go right back to eating before we adjusted his diet. I truly think he felt that vomiting was just a normal part of everyday life and didn't associate it with what he was taking in. He has never had an aversion to sweets but generally only likes things that are mildly sweet. He also likes things unsweetened just fine.

At times he has told me that foods burn his mouth. That's how I ultimately found out that "fresh" uncooked chicken I bought was prepared with a cane juice solution. I think that ability is amazing.

[meaniejean]

Lisa,
I just had to comment because Calvin also sometimes says that foods "burn" his mouth if they have fructose. So strange. We had to stop buying a certain ground turkey because it continually burned his mouth. It IS pretty amazing.
Sandra

[sherri]

I see that you are talking about different tolerances so how about corn and corn products? I am a little confussed on this one! I read that popcorn is out but then read that tostitos were ok. I enjoy making cheese nachos with white corn tortilla chips, now I'm wondering if this is no good either! Is it just yellow sweet corn we cant have? What about then corn starch? Again I know that we all may have different experiences with different foods but I'd sure like to hear some feedback on everyones experiences!
Thanks!

[Tammy]

Corn is something that seems to be the hardest to make sense out of. Corn itself is not allowed. BUT corn flour, corn starch, corn meal, even corn syrup if you can find it pure without added fructose is fine. The fructose is in the germ of the corn.

As far as popcorn, we just had a discussion on that on another thread, and it turns out that most all on here does just fine on popcorn.

[Tammy]

Laura,
I've been thinking about this ever since you posted it. It's a connection I never made before. Now that it's been rolling around in my brain, I think you may be right on it depending a lot on at what age someone is diagnosed.

That would certainly explain Regina and most of the kids on here that like the safe sweets, and why the older ones cringe when I tell new parents just to teach the kids the difference between safe and bad sweets instead of trying to eliminate them all.

Getting that sick over and over again would certainly make me not want anything to do it.

Whether there's any fact to it or not doesn't really matter. It just makes sense to me.

[millan]

I also think this is very interesting.

I was diagnosed when I was 3. This means that I have had more than 2 years of throwing up and being violently ill, but I don't remember anything about it.

I hate all sweet taste, for example when my dietitian happily informed me as a teenager that there was an ice-cream that I could eat - with aspartame - I knew I wouldn't be able to stomach it (I tried it anyway - and almost threw up). I have rarely tried to find a HFI-safe treat, since they taste sweet even if they don't contain normal sugar.

I love the smell and taste of cinnamon (I have it sometimes with porridge or yogurt), and I can appreciate the smell of some kinds of cookies or baked goods.
Chocolate is something I like the taste of, but cringe at the sweetness of both normal bars and HFI-safe sweetened bars. I do buy a very dark one - 90 % cocoa (on the principle that the more cocoa there are, the less sugar there can be) - and eat small pieces without trouble on occasion.

But I feel nauseous when I smell cooked vegetables. Cauliflower, onions, cabbage etc.
The same with several kinds of fruit. I had to force myself to give my daughter bananas when she was a baby. I would peel them and force a smile on my face as I held them for her, not wanting to show her how sick I felt from the smell. I'm a bit more used to it now, and it helps a little that I can make a face when she peels them herself. She just smiles and says "You can't eat this, can you mommy?" ;D

[mazian]

It is great to hear that there is variety. My daughter has just found the benefits of cinnamon and is obsessed with it. She loves it and just like Millan she loves the 90% cocoa chocolate very occasionally. She hates the taste of sugar, but loves a taste (just a lick) of hazelnut gelati. She won't have more than a lick of it though. She obviously knows what makes her sick, which is good for me. Is there anyother spice (like cinnamon) which we newies should be aware of? (Only HFI safe stuff).

[esmee]

I just wanted to say that I think the reason young fresh corn cannot be eating is that is has quite a lot of fructose, while the corn in corn chips, corn meal, and popcorn are grown to maturity (become hard and dry on the cob) and are a different variety and, therefore, contain no fructose.

1 medium ear of fresh corn has 2 gms of fructose

100 gm of cornmeal has 180 mg of fructose

100 gm of corn chips has 380 mg of fructose

remember: 1 gm = 1,000 mg

[Tammy]

Actually, the problem with corn is the "germ". The fructose is in the germ. That is why corn sugar (dextrose) is fine.

[esmee]

yes, but i thought most HFI people could eat corn chips and corn meal if they do not overindulge? is this correct?

I always thought that corn meal and corn flower were ground from whole corn which would contain the germ, but i could be wrong. The databases show that both contain minute amounts of fructose (likely present in the germ), but the fresh corn contains way more fructose (likely present in the germ and flesh).

the types of corn grow for fresh eating is a very different type than what is grown for meal and flour and contains much more sugar and is much sweeter tasting.

[ukbill]

I doubt if Corn Syrup is in any way HFI safe!

To make it they take the whole corn and mash it up then add an enzyme that converts all the starch into Glucose.. however the 4% or so of Fructose that is present in the whole corn will be still present and WILL carry through to the finished product!

As an HFI if you have this "100% pure Corn syrup" you will not get a reaction!

The amount of Glucose will mask the Fructose, however you will feel less well for several days following this.

Also the Crash after the Glucose has burnt off will be really bad because the Fructose will be still sitting in the blood stream and the body will naturally account for that in the "total blood sugar" as controlled by the insulin.

So the natural thing to do is take more!! to feel better.. anyone else see the problem here?

The constant level of Fructose then damages the liver, Kidneys etc and makes life as an HFI that much more problematic.. not to mention depressing!

Glucose is also very addictive particularly for a person with HFI, as Glucose breaks down it produces a hormone that make the brain feel good, warm and happy, the sudden absence of this at the end of the Glucose "high" only adds to the discomfort of the crash that will follow.

I will never accept that Dextrose or Glucose has ANY part in an HFI diet unless its used in tiny amounts in making bread or in brewing.

If you have a child diagnosed as HFI, feeding it Glucose or artificial sweetners is a really BAD idea for so very many reasons.

There are therefore NO HFI "SAFE" sweets!

The ONLY defence a person with HFI has is their sense of taste.

This has to be really finely tuned to avoid eating foods that should be safe, was safe last time, but this time is not!

I thank my lucky stars every day for the ability to detect very small amounts of Fructose and sugar in foods.

If I was "trained" to eat sweets and "Diet" sweetened drinks I would not be able to do this and my life would be incredibly damaged as a result!

[gretchen]

UKBill, I thought that insulin only works on glucose, not fructose. Doesn't insulin usher glucose into cells to be used for energy? Whereas fructose heads to the liver to be metabolized by people who have enough fructose enzymes (or to poison those who don't.) And also that devices to test blood sugar only measure glucose.

Am I misunderstanding how this works?

[esmee]

I was wondering if gluco-meters measure just glucose, too, or if they measure both glucose and fructose. I presume it is just glucose.

[ukbill]

I think so yes.

The bosdy keeps the total sugar level in the blood between two levels usually the amount of fruictose is not a problem because its very quickly broken down in the Liver..

However we don't have the required enzyme so the Fructose just sits there.. if the Insulin did not reduce the amount of Glucose then

1/. we would not go Hypoglycaemic
2/. our blood could get so thick we would risk heart attacks.

Sorry if not nicely typed out but in a rush to get out

[ukbill]

esmee

The old ones measured total blood sugar (as tested when I was 5 in hospital 50 years ago.. blimey that long!)

new ones only measure Glucose. it would be great if we could find a Fructose tester! or one that tests for all blood sugars then we could subtract one form the other to find the amount of Fructose in our blood.