Dextrose

[jenferg]

I have found pure dextrose at a health food store and am very excited to try it. Does anyone have any idea the conversion from dextrose to "regular" sugar when baking with it? I have tried Stevia as a sweetener and my son hates it. I tried it also and it has a very bad after taste. Jen F.

[andre]

Dextrose (or glucose, which is the same thing) will not convert to "regular sugar" (saccharose) when baking with it.

However, keep in mind that dextrose will decompose at 146 °C (295 °F) and lose its sweet taste. Many recipes for regular sugar recommend a baking temperature of 160–180 °C (320–356 °F) which is definitely too much for dextrose. So if you bake at the high temperature the cake will turn into a black something with an awful taste (because of dextrose decomposition), and if you bake at a lower temperature the cake may not develop its desired structure (e.g. it will not grow enough, have too much humidity left inside etc.).

According to my parent's experience (they bake for me sometimes), any cake based on yeast dough and dextrose will bake beautifully. Also cookies based on shortpastry will be fine if you keep the baking temperature below 150 °C. My father even developed a recipe for gingerbread, replacing the normally included honey with dextrose syrup (dextrose dissolved in water). I may translate the recipes into English and post them here if you are interested.

[Tammy]

I use Dextrose to bake all the time. I take any recipe, cake, cookies, whatever, and I substitute Dextrose for sugar all the time. It does come out slightly less sweet, but my daughter likes it that way. You can add more dextrose to make up for the sweetness, but then it usually loses some of its form. It's better to use the same amount. I bake at 350 degrees with no problems.

I work at a food plant (we make Chef-Boy-Ar-Dee products). A few of their products use dextrose. They are then processed at VERY high temps. So at least here in the states, dextrose doesn't break down.

I would love to have your gingerbread recipe.
And thanks for the tip of making the substitute honey. I wouldn't have thought of that. I'll give it a try sometime.
Tammy

[kerrynz]

Hi everybody.

Thanks for all the feedback on the processing difficulties, This is interesting because from what I’ve read it seems to be a real HFI thing along with slow speech, but later they do eventually gain proper vocab.
Any way here are my thoughts on a few things, maybe Fred and Tammy have some imput cause I’m only the onlooker.
I’ve come to believe Zanoah has processing difficulties also when she’s what you call overloaded from fructose ingestion. But let me clarify my understanding and please feel free to add where I’m not getting it right.
First they eat/drink something, they have their immediate reaction sick nausea bowel problems. 2nd they now have it in their system this brings on a hypo, which can always be seen in Zanoah by the lay down on the floor with no communication and the staring. At this point I pick her up and encourage her to drink milk and eat a carb then again 1 hour later this mostly arrests the hypo.

But that brings me to the third stage which I think is when the “behaviour that we presume is a symptom of seizure activity or staring or not cooperating even night time episodes due to the time frame. And with Zanoah normally some screaming, This 3rd stage I term as acidosis. Not so some much as seizures, but just as frightening and needing most attention to correct.

So I to have a glucometer, but I don’t use it until I move to the third stage because yes getting a splinter out is not much fun. So after I know she has had a hypo and is still not well I can monitor her acidosis with the glucometer, ask your Dr if yours can do the reading same test just a different stick to put into it. Because if the reading is above 7 here, they need a trip to casualty to get a drip to bring their ph back into line and this stops that 2-3 days of feeling unwell. Does the dr acknowledge LBS does have a serious side when the numbers get down to around the 2 mark? I look forward to hearing your comments.

It’s funny I see the pattern, and from what I gather no one tells us about, the little things that make a difference. Like am protein, late pm snacks, plus the list of pantry items was great.

As you all know we are going against advice and trying to put Zanoah into preschool. The first obstacle was finding a respectful attitude from the teachers, then one who would let me bring food one site we found one, they are great. But then they asked for a medical plan of what should they do when it happens and it does.
Out of curiosity what would you all write? I’ll post mine sometime.
Then they asked for Drs signatures on the plan and me to do three full days of orientation to see if I could help spot some of the times or area’s where they need to be careful.
Well all of us were being so careful we didn’t spot the lunch helper who had been told, give her, her first taste of diluted juice. Hence three days of acidosis [now I have the glucometer] because I didn’t even twig when she went to bed early that night she had hypo’d into unconsciousness because we assumed she was tired. But next morning we were already in stage three. LOL.

But it taught them a lot and me plus we haven’t seen that lunch help in the room again.

On another point, weight gain. All HFI People I have spoken with tell me they are slim and never have weight probs. But we have been pressured because she is underweight by the scale they use. But if you look at the growth over say the last six month she is steadily gaining and growing, just not as they would be happy with. When I asked a nurse one day she looked at Zanoah and said she is well covered and why worry as to what the chart says. Don’t get to caught up with guide lines that may be outdated anyway. So I don’t, when we weigh her if she has steadily gained and looks slim not scrawny, why worry?. We can’t all be overweight and Zanoah only started to gain when we put her on full HFI Diet. But I do worry about the diet issues of cream and butter and high fat. What are their arteries going to be like in twenty years???

I cook in all temps with dextrose also and have no trouble. Does anybody sprinkle dextrose raw on cereal??
Always good to hear from you all, Thanks again
Kerryn

[Andrea]

Hi, everybody!!
I use Maltodextrose ( Nidex) on Davi´s recipes. It isn´t as sweet as sugar, but Davi likes. He refuses anything with sweet taste.

[Tammy]

Kerryn
I'm not really going to be much help either. As far as your stages you're noticing, I'd say just keep track and watch her patterns. It sounds as though you are seeing them now.
Regina doesn't have any immediate symptoms when she does get anything by accident. It takes 3 - 4 days for any kind of sign, and then we have to do the back tracking thing to try to figure out what it might have been, if we didn't see what she ate. Then she starts with vomiting and all the rest. Her migraine-type headache is so bad that we just put her in a dark room and try to let her sleep. So I have no ideas about hypos or anything. The one time she got her brothers candy bar (she was about 4 or 5 and found his Halloween bag. We found an empty Kit Kat wrapper) she had a seizure. The actual worse time was when a little girl "shared" some cookies in the backseat of the school bus with her. 10 days later when she still had really bad "flu type" symptoms, the doctors had no idea how to help, other than just letting her ride it out. She had to get it out of her system, and there was no way they could do it for her. She did finally get over it after about 2 weeks. And when it cleared out of her system, she was perfectly normal again. Just sat up one day and said it was all gone. That was her worst case. For small amounts, it is still a couple of days later, and then it can last from a couple of hours to a couple of days, but when she is better, she is better instantly.

Her slow "processing" is brain damage. It is not affected by what she has eaten. It doesn't change by when she eats too much of something. It is always there. She has progressed a long way from where she started, and she is still progressing. But what she has, she always has.

I agree with Fred in that the best thing is to just be fructose free. And from some of your earlier posts, it sounds like Zanoah is already learning it will make her sick. I'm sure she'll agree that it's not worth feeling sick over.

Why did they not want you to put her in regular pre-school? Here they encourage it. Regina went to regular school all the way through. She was in regular classes until they just got too far along for her. Then she was in a special class, in the regular school, and still did some classes that she could handle with help, like gym. She ate the same thing at school every day, but it kept her healthy.

As far as protein in the morning and late night snacks, if they seem to help Zanoah, then go for it. I don't really think that part is strictly HFI. As Fred said, it's simply a question of eliminating all fructose. And once it's gone, all the symptoms should soon follow. Just don't keep trying to make it "healthy" as you think of healthy. For these kids, the more artificial it is, the better it is for them.

Putting dextrose on cereal is fine, but I use Equal (aspartame). It's really sweet to someone who doesn't eat much sweet, so it only takes a tiny bit to fit Regina's taste. The less you use, the more they will like the less sweet taste, the less likely they will be to want to try things that are sweet when they are a little older. It's kind of like when I went on a diet. I always drank regular soda. When I went on the diet, I switched to diet soda. Thought it tasted terrible, but I eventually got used to the taste. Now when I try to drink a regular one, I think it's terrible and way too sweet.

Good luck with the school, and remember, eating the same thing all the time in school is probably a good habit to be in. Then she may question something out of the ordinary and it may help stop accidents.
Tammy

[jenferg]

to all:
I made spritz cookies with Dextrose and just substituted it for sugar. The consistency was not the same. Bailey did not pay any attention to the cookies. I think that he knows at 18 months that sugar makes him sick. prior to us finding out about HFI, he would smell food, and not eat it if he didn't like the smell. All the tings he refused to eat had sugar of some osrt. Crazy how mother nature has built into him this survival mechanism. I was very worried about him having something sweet to eat, so he didn't miss out on something in life, but he is not worried about it at all. by the way you can order dextrose from a company called NOW. I will look on the package when I have a second to give you the web site. I paid 3.25 for 1or 2 pounds! They make other sugar free products I believe. Jen F.

[lisa]

I made 2 different kinds of cookies for Nate on Friday and substituted dextrose for the sugar. (Got it at a local home brewing supply store.) I can't think of anything else new that he ate and he has had the worst diarrhea the past few days.

Ingredients for both of the cookies include: all purpose flour, baking soda, cream cheese, butter, vanilla, cocoa powder, salt, eggs, and dextrose.

Can anyone tell me if there is any one of these that I should be worried about? Can you eat too much dextrose?

[lisa]

Thanks Kristen. I have gone back to using the stevia to sweeten things for him and it seems better so far today. It's really too bad, since he got SO excited over those cookies. I'm waiting for a call from the dietician to see if she knows anything about it. It may have been that he just had too many of them (plus I made koolaid with it). Crossing my fingers!
Glad to hear Coley is over his most recent bad symptoms. I'm starting to understand that Nate's last for 3 days after he has had the wrong food. I can't believe it has not even been 3 weeks since this whole diet change started. Feels like forever already!

[Tammy]

Also check the cream cheese. I have seen some brands with sugar and/or corn syrup in them.

And a lot of people say Stevia is still a natural sweetner to be avoided.

[lisa]

Kristen,
I am curious - where did you get the liquid glucose? I have never been able to get Nate to drink tea, but I may try koolaid.

Nate has been pretty good at eating the chicken nuggets and eggs for protein. Other than that he mostly eats carbs (bread and pasta) and dairy. He eats a cup of yogurt at least twice per day and that has 9g protein in a serving. I'm not sure what to be pushing for (if there is a magic number of grams).

I have been noticing that since we started the diet, he has had a harder time going to sleep at night and wakes up later in the morning. He is also way more volatile (cries at the drop of a hat) and still seems to be going thru withdrawl, though that part is getting a bit better. I wonder if his attitude change has something to do with LBS? I don't know enough about it to say one way or the other and I'm not sure what to do about it if that is the case.

Don't see the dietician for another 26 days and I have a call in, but it has not yet been returned. So far you all have been my lifesavers.

[Tammy]

Lisa,
A lot of drug stores will have glucose. And also medical supplies stores. Even Wal-Mart may. (Ours does).

He may not like Kool-aid. It has fruit flavoring and he may not like that. You may make out the best by just putting it in water if he won't do even a weak tea. And if water doesn't do it, just put it in anything that he will drink. Milk, diet soda (but watch- some diet coke is now made with splenda), weak coffee, anything you can get in him is good, even if you hate to think of him drinking soda.

[Tammy]

Kristen,
thanks, it looks as if maybe you can teach this old dog a new trick.
I've never tried the glucose when Regina has a problem, but think I'll give it a try the next time. Like you said, it's certainly not going to hurt. Her dr just always said she had to ride it out. We tried some things, nothing ever seemed to help, but we never tried glucose.

Hopefully I'll never find out, but I'm sure at some point I will.

[Tammy]

The glucose at Wal-Mart is a gel. It's in the diabetic section. They use it if they need to raise their level in a hurry. It is called "Insta-Glucose". It comes in a tube. It contains: Liquid glucose, purified water, ARTIFICIAL cherry flavor, methylparaben, potassium sorbate, sodium benzoate, and propylparaben. If your local Wal-Mart doesn't carry this, I'm sure they would order it in for you.

I would NOT recommend using this on a daily basis just to allow him to eat un-allowed foods. I still think his bodys reaction is the best defense he has. But in cases where it is too late to un-eat something, this may help. Since it is cherry tasting, and Regina wouldn't like it, I'd probably put it in chocolate pudding. She'll eat anything in that. But to use it just to allow more foods, The fructose could damage the liver in the long run.

Unlike Fred, Regina loves her cookies and cakes. I use Dextrose in baking and she doesn't have a problem with it. I've never used it to sweeten things such as drinks. I use Equal for that (tea, oatmeal, etc) It's aspartame. There is also one out there called "DiabetiSweet". It's at Wal-Mart, also in the diabetic section of the pharmacy. It contains Isomalt and Acesulfame-K. I have never tried this, but it may be an option if dextrose doesn't work for baking for you.

I know a lot of people don't like the aspartame, either. But for these kids, the more artificial it is, the better. The more natural, the more chance you have of running into natural fructose.

[lisa]

Still searching for glucose. I was more thinking of it as an alternative to cooking with dextrose than a mellower for symptoms from eating the wrong thing. Tammy, I'm curious as to why you wouldn't use dextrose to sweeten drinks. Is it just that aspartame is easier?
I've been leary of using aspartame because of bad things I've heard and have only used it sparingly.
I know most are opposed to stevia as a sweetener, but I have been using less than a tsp daily to mildly sweeten Nate's yogurt with no issues. Even the sites previously listed on this board say that that small of an amount won't cause problems. From what I can see the concern is consumer overindulgence.
Until I find another option, my position is going to be aspartame, dextrose and stevia in very limited quantities and food with no sweeteners is best.

[Tammy]

Kristen,
Maybe you are using too much aspartame. A little goes a long way. So if you are using enough to sweeten it to your taste, maybe it is just too sweet for him. Try cutting it by half and see if he likes it then. Regina doesn't really like it sweet, just enough to take the bitter out.

[Tammy]

Lisa,
I don't really have a good answer for that.
Originally, that is what the dietician told me to do. I don't know why aspartame over dextrose, and it didn't occur to me to ask. She was right on everything else, so I just took her word for it. Listening to your stories now, maybe it was the sugar problems that she foresaw.

That dietician is long retired and I have no way of finding her. The one that took her place usually asks me questions. She's really not any help at all.

So at this point, I rely on old, good advice and stick with the tried and true.

[Tammy]

Kristen,
Regina won't drink crystal light or kool-aid, but it has nothing to do with the aspartame. She doesn't like anything that is fruit flavored. I'm not sure about the milk, though. Something to think about.

Nestle makes a sugar-free chocolate and that is what we use to make chocolate milk. Some of the super Wal-Marts carry it, so any of them can probably order it in for you.

[Tammy]

Kristen
As far as that drink,
I don't remember a name because I never knew a name. I only know the lady at the "home health store" showed me a couple that were ok. Try a place like that. It's where someone on tube feedings would get that. Any kind of products that are needed for someone just home from a hospital stay. IV's, IV pumps, etc. That is where I saw it. The lady would have had to order it for me, but it was in a book she had.

[lisa]

I made a cake (and cupcakes for daycare) for Nate's birthday yesterday - white cake recipe I got online - and substituted dextrose for the sugar. The cake baked nicely and was raised while in the oven, but as soon as I got it out of the oven, I could still hear it crackling and the cake gradually fell. Taste was passable, but it was VERY dense. Good thing the frosting turned out well or I don't think we would have eaten more than a bite. I'm trying to figure out whether it is my baking skills or the dextrose that made it happen. Is there another sweetener that is better for baking with? I need to make another cake for Saturday and could use a few tips.

Since the frosting turned out good I thought I would share. I made 2 kinds:
Type 1: Combined approx. 1.5 cups dextrose, 1/6 cup butter, splash of milk, and a few teaspoons of SF raspberry gelatin mix. It had a wierd consistency, but it tasted like smartees. Measurements on all of this are approximate.

Type 2: Made 2 types of whipped cream. Vanilla, whipping cream and dextrose made up one and the other was whipping cream and the SF raspberry gelatin mix. I think this would taste great using orange gelatin - sort of like a 50/50 bar, but I didn't have that kind on hand.