Mache rosettes

[jenn123]

I am wondering if mache rosettes are safe for HFI. I am not finding them in the lists of vegetables that I have in US, but they are not common here. They may be included in European food lists. My kid is crazy for them and hoping that they somehow fall into the safe green leafy category.
Thanks

[ukbill]

In the UK its knows as Lambs Lettuce.
I'm not certain of its fructose level but in small amounts I doubt it would do significant harm.
IS this the stuff? Valerianella locusta (wiki)
Not Great fan of it myself I prefer Watercress if I'm wanting anything green

[jenn123]

That's the stuff. She only eats the leafy ends and not the stems so I have figured she knew something . She loves it though and would eat a plateful . Now that I know it's HFI, I want to be able to gauge her consumption.
Thanks - I knew you would know what it was Bill 😊

[ukbill]

A simple rule of thumb as to HFI safety or not with plants.

If the plant has a large root or Rhizome system this is where the energy is stored.. if it has a small "rooty" type root system then the energy the plant needs is stored in the stem or fleshy parts of the plant.

For example:-

Rhubarb has a large Rhizome root type system and the stalks are safe to eat (not the leaves they are very high in Oxalic acid as a defence against insect or herbivore attack) while cabbage has no root store so all the energy the plant has to survive the winter is stored in the stem or white fleshy "veins" on the leaves.

Beetroot leaves are safer than cabbage leaves with large veins remaining or any white cabbage.

Some of the lettuce leaves are safe'ish but others are less safe if it is cabbage like .. I.E iceberg it is too sweet but oak leaved or "soft" lettuce is fine in small amounts.

I have worked this out by knowing something about plant physiology and testing by eating to see the side effects I get.

The green parts of the leaves of spring onions or chives are far safer than the white parts as are the leaves of Garlic. Garlic is fine as an oil or cloves soaked in brine (the Fructose leaches out into the brine) although one or two cloves is unlikely to cause an adult any problems at all.

In all cases if your cooking a veg for an HFI boiling in a large pan of water will always reduce the Fructose load.

It therefore is unsafe for HFI to eat onion bulbs, any part of a leak which is very sweet all over, beetroot, radishes etc. Celery is a good one to avoid. there is little to no taste of sweetness unless its cooked when all the sweetness that was hidden comes out. Celery seed is very powerfully flavoured (VERY!) so a tiny pinch of Cellery seeds will replace celery in a recipe and add a real sparkle to any salad or stew.

I have just eaten a steak fried in peanut / ground oil and butter with a pinch of celery seeds added to the oil before cooking the steak..! yummy Onion seeds are similar but much lower flavoured than celery seeds.

Hope this helps a bit?

Keep smiling

[antonia]

Am I reading here that rhubarb is safe?! If so I can think of so many ways to utilize the wonderful tart flavor of this plant.

[ukbill]

Well because its a plant we have to assume some Fructose load however I have eaten it all my life and had no problems ever no matter how much I have eaten.
I have on occasion eaten several large bowels made from many stalks.
These days not having any plants in my garden I have to buy it in and its expensive! So I'm restricted to 4 stalks a meal.
I have
Rhubarb and custard, Cream, Blancmange,
Rhubarb pies with Cream, custard, Blancmange (flavour of your choice)
Rhubarb crumble again with toppings as above.
And rhubarb and pudding rice ditto toppings.

I NEVER need any sweetening with it.. which makes "normal" people cringe and insist I must need some.. but its fine no problems at all and it has a lovely flavour!

Some things taste fine until cooked but then show off their true sweetness (celery) which is why I use celery seeds, a very small pinch is all it takes they are POWERFULLY flavoured.

[antonia]

Thank you. I'm going to attempt making rhubarb tarts for Thanksgiving holiday tomorrow. She'll be thrilled to be able to eat pie with the rest of the family.

[tummyache]

I make Rhubarb Preserves with 2 packages of frozen unsweetened pre-cut rhubarb + 1/2 to 1 cup dextrose -depends on your tolerance level for sweetness. Don't add anything else. Then, cook down until it is bubbly and put into prepared Ball canning jars. This will not be very sweet -- but delicious on toast, homemade "safe" ice cream, filling for a tart, or on pancakes. I use very little at a time...just enough to get the flavor.

[antonia]

Well, the tarts were successful. I used about a tablespoon dextrose per cup of rhubarb. (This was incredibly tart stuff for me but Palmera loved it.) Because it's so packed with flavor I only had to use about a teaspoon or two of filling per tart. I also made vanilla infused whipping cream to go with by heating a whole, washed vanilla bean in cream over low heat until very fragrant. To my surprise, after refrigerating overnight, the cream actually whipped up fine.

She did not go hypo, but did have extremely smelly urine that night, so maybe there could have been some reaction there. Although I can't say from what since she had several foods that I usually limit all in one day (mashed potatoes (she's never done well with potatoes), olives, Pirates Booty, rhubarb, dextrose and vanilla cream). But I'll take it. She had a great holiday! Thanks all.

[colormist]

Vanilla has fructose in it. That might have been the primary source of the reaction. Most of us use mapleine extract in the place of vanilla extract.
www.mccormick.com/spices-and-flavors/extracts-and-food-colors/extracts/mapleine-imitation-maple-flavor

Sounds like the tarts were a huge hit, though! I have yet to try rhubarb.

[ukbill]

As I did say please none HFI people do not think anything is too tart for us.. our taste buds work differently from yours. (or should do).

I used to eat green gooseberries fresh off the bush (yes and get ill eventually when I over did them ) no one else I knew could eat them without huge amounts of added sugar..

PS I bet your daughter would have enjoyed the tarts fully filled and just as much without the dextrose.. just adding a little cream or evaporated milk to take the edge off the tartness.

Rhubarb Crumble is really good too with lots of cream or custard on it, as are pies, tarts, etc.. or just eat it raw as a snack while everyone else is having a banana or apple in a packed school lunch for example.

If it gets warm it tends to go limp and unappetizing however and if old can get stringy (in which case just peel it) it also is a strong laxative!

So be careful of eating too much of it unless you are bunged up in which case ... knock yourself out but make sure you have an adequate supply of loo roll 1st

Glad it was a hit.

Keep smiling

Bill A.

[antonia]

I didn't use vanilla extract but rather infused the cream by heating it with a whole uncut vanilla bean. In hopes that, in theory, it would be similar to infusing garlic in a pure fat and would leave the vanilla flavor without the fructose. But, of course, I have no idea if this theory holds true. I'll look for the mapleine extract. That would certainly be easier.

Ukbill I did see some recipes for rhubarb custard pies. I think I will try that next without the dextrose. At least that way there would be a little lactose to counteract the tartness. I also found a recipe for a roast (beef or pork, can't remember which) with rhubarb sauce. So, I'm really curious how it would be in savory dishes as well. This sauce recipe had no added sugar but did contain a lot of onion which I assume would lend a lot of sweetness, but I'm going to follow your lead and see whether she might like it with some cream added in place of the onions.

[ukbill]

Onions are a no-no of course a few green chives might be ok though they have a root system that stores the energy rather than in the leaves and stalks.

Cream is a good idea can you post the recipe? lets have a gander at it

I usually make a peppercorn or blue cheese (stilton) sauce if I'm doing a special meal with Steak or Roast meats (not fish chicken or poultry)

Mint sauce is great too. Just finely chop green mint leaves and soak them in a malt (not cider or wine) vinegar. About 30 min to an hour before use is best. Dried mint can be used at a push too. And of course Caper butter or sauce is wonderful if a bit sharp for none HFI tastes.

I cannot understand why anyone would add sugar to mint sauce.. its beyond my understanding. But then as I say our tastebuds seem to work differently than none HFI people

To me Savoury means NONE sweet.. why anyone would add sugar to savoury foods seems like madness to me. but then most veg are sweet so perhaps thats where people get the idea from?

I used to eat quite a lot of Colmans Mustard (english full heat version) which to Americans is like eating molten lava.. its hotter than Wasabi and Dijon french Mustard along with whole grain versions.

However since I discovered that when cooked it becomes VERY sweet flavoured I have dropped it out of my diet.

Like Celery I suspect the sweetness is masked when raw but shows its presence when cooked.. like onion I suppose too now I think about it. Or perhaps the cooking process breaks down the starches into sugars?? Maybe a culinary chemist might know?? Yes they do exist working for every ready meal manufacturer of size.

[antonia]

Yes, I can assure you the average, non HFI person does not think of most vegetables as sweet, even onion, except the obvious sweet ones like corn, sweet potato or yam, maybe carrots. My mind went crazy when I first thought of how rhubarb could be used in cooking. Rhubarb's flavor profile is more fruity than any other vegetable I can think of. Speaking as a non HFI person, when you add sugar to it, it tastes more like a fruit than a vegetable. I can see it being used anyplace one of the more tart or sour fruits is commonly used in cooking, in place of lemons, limes, cranberries, even tomatoes. Adding certain spices or aromatics could make it into a condiment sauce (replacement for ketchup or cranberry sauce), used in marinades, barbecue sauces, meat sauce such bolognese, meat chili, stuffings or dressings......

I will look for that recipe. Maybe you will have ideas on how to turn it HFI friendly.

[ukbill]

I can certainly try most recipes can be adapted (well savory dishes anyway )

Bear in mind that Rhubarb is a laxative so overdoing it can result in someone over doing it.. if you get my drift?

HFI diet needs not be limiting at all many great tasty varied meals can be made however it needs a little lateral thinking and "adaptability"

Keep smiling

[antonia]

Ukbill, I finally found that rhubarb sauce recipe and decided to make it on Christmas Day. It was a recipe for an uncured, fresh ham with an onion rhubarb sauce. It SOUNDED wonderful, but I have to say it's one of the worst meals I ever made. Go me. Learned a lesson, I'll never try a new recipe on a holiday again. Anyway, so it basically called to roast a fresh ham and then sauté onion (a lot of onion) and sliced rhubarb in the roasting pan, first removing then adding back the drippings after fat removed and veggies were sautéed. I was going to prepare Palmera some sauce seperately by sautéing her rhubarb in a separate pan without onions, stir in some of the drippings and cut with some cream. But the result of sautéing the rhubarb caused the rhubarb to loose its color and it was a gloppy, dry, beige colored mess, not a lovely reddish colored sauce like I imagined. It may have been that I had to use previously frozen rhubarb that was cut too thick that led to the sauce's demise. But the ham was also dry and tasteless. I don't recommend ever trying to cook an uncured or non brined ham either. Really a disaster.

So, a bit humbled, but I am still interested in using rhubarb. However, I think it's got some challenges, it may do better in wet cooking methods, not dry like sautéing. I plan on growing some this spring and experimenting with it fresh. The variety I find in the stores is not all red in color but is more green than red. I see other varieties when searching online that are all red, really beautiful in color. What kind have you eaten in the past and do you think the variety matters? I really think adding a little bit of rhubarb to things like meat pasta sauces or chilies could add a lot of brightness to their flavor, much like lemons and tomatoes do in traditional recipes.

[ukbill]

Well the onions would not be good..
Dextrose could well contain Fructose.. in Fact its a fair bet it dose so be careful there. as you said she was happy with the tartness (I'm not surprised) so why bother with the Dextrose?

My mother always made things for me (Custard puddings etc like Rice pudding Sago pudding and Semolina along with Blancmanges) without sugar in then stir in sugar for every one elses Puddings (or make a special portion for me)

Rice pudding for example I would have my own little stone pot with a lid on it and mine was 100% sugar free and delicious.

Semolina pudding mine would be in its own (buttered) oven proof dish..

Dumplings cooked in a Pressure cooker in milk.. wonderful take about 3 min at pressure. so mine cooked 1st then fruit Dumplings for the rest of the family. all still hot to eat they cook so fast.

There is no real restriction or cause to think our diet is "restricted" all it takes is a little imagination , adaption and just go for it!

If it is not nice well look at why and either retry or give it a miss for ever.. like Onion and Rhubarb coating to a Ham.. I really cannot imagine that was going to ever work.

Well done for trying anyway do not let the failure put you off.

Keep smiling

[antonia]

www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2013/05/tart-unsweetened-homemade-rhubarb-juice-recipe.html

I found this recipe for rhubarb juice with NO ADDED SUGAR! Do you think this would be safe? Not sure, even the author said it had natural sweetness without adding sugar, so I'm afraid this process concentrates the naturally occurring fructose in the plant too much. I sure do like the idea of making a refreshing drink, popsicle or tea with it though. Or using it in recipes that call for juice.

[colormist]

I would worry that it would be too concentrated. I've had lemon slices and lemon zest without any reaction, but lemon juice (even massively diluted) cause a very strong reaction.

Rhubarb popsicles sounds amazing, though.

[antonia]

Yes, you're probably right. Too good to be true. Thank you for shaking me back to reality.