Black Pepper contains fructose?

[Hj]

Does anyone here eat seasonings like black Pepper without problems? Ive used a tablespoon of black Pepper to season my meat because I was tired of eating food without flavour and had a really bad reaction.. I thought it was safe..what are your experiência with it? How much do you use it,and how often?
Thanks

[colormist]

I don't have any problems with black pepper. You got me curious (as I never thought to check as to whether or not black pepper had fructose in it) and I checked the nutritional information online: nutritiondata.self.com/facts/spices-and-herbs/200/2

It lists Black Pepper at 0.0grams of sugars, which should mark it as a pretty safe bet. I use it like gangbusters. In fact, I accidentally poured a teaspoon of black pepper (the lid was not secured) on my chicken noodles and felt fine after eating the extremely peppery noodles.

Was there anything else you ate that might have caused a reaction? Was your pepper seasoned in any other way? Was the meat brined or plumped with broth or natural flavor?

[Hj]

It was grass fed beef and butter, no aditives whatsoever. I used a tablespoon, not just a teaspoon, because I wanted the meat spicy, and it sure did make it spicy but I had hipoglicemia afterwards. I dont know..

[denverjay]

Not sure why you had trouble with the beef and black pepper. I use a ton of black pepper and never have trouble. I also rub a little course salt on the steaks before cooking to really add some flavor.

[oneladyff]

I have HFI and from what I have learned is that all seeds and grains have fructose. Basically if it grows from the ground it likely has fructose. I have been told that the only fruit that is fructose free is lemons. I have been on a very strict diet to save my liver damaged by HFI for a yr now. As my numbers fluctuate when I try adding spices or any kind of flour product to the food I eat I am finding that there is a huge difference between most of the Safe food lists and the list that I have created by trial and my blood work. What I know of as safe right now is meat of any kind, fish, chicken, pork and eggs and cheese that does not have added Anneto for color, no seasoning, milk and water only to drink. . Outside of that, it's a pretty boring diet. Hope this helps a little.

[oneladyff]

I should of added that I can tolerate many foods, have all my life but my lab work for my liver tells me that my liver can not tolerate that. This is a very hard thing to convey to people that don't understand the difference between tolerating, meaning you don't get hypoglycemic or stomach cramps but what is it doing to your liver and kidney.

[jenni]

I have issues with sulfur and sulfites and black pepper is a no no for sulfites as well as natural sulfur compounds... If you have a cbs gene mutation you could have issues processing sulfur !

[Oregon gal]

That is so sad re all seeds and grains!! I am newly diagnosed and I've got a couple questions: 1) I've read on this forum about kidney pain after eating something containing fructose. I have this often. And prior to me diagnosis (via genetic test), my kidney enzyme labs were elevated- my primary doc didn't know what to make of it. When I met with the doc at the metabolic clinic at ohsu, he said that people with HFI generally don't have kidney pain- while it can affect the kidneys- it generally doesn't cause actual pain. My kidneys enzymes now are at the top end of normal since I've been trying to follow the diet (it's very hard- I usually eat out quite often- and now become symptomatic often). And even more frustrating- my symptoms of hypoglycemia and nausea are much more exaggerated now- which I've complained about before but it continues to be frustrating. In my profession and socially, eating out together is expected and I'm finding these exaggerated symptoms challenging... But I know that I need my kidneys and liver to last me awhile yet, lol. Sorry to complain- still trying to make this transition.

Another question: which cheeses do or do not have anneto in them? I am finding cheese as my go to food- and I've stocked up on a wonderful variety.

One more: I just bought a bread maker- so excited to start making my own breads/pastas since some of the store bought ones are causing symptoms sometimes- are any of the flours " safe"? I've read that one persons "safe" may differ from another persons "safe"slightly because of the differing gene mutations... Are there any that are generally "safer" than others?

I really truly appreciate this forum and everyone's willingness to share. I'd be at a huge loss without all of the wisdom and advice I've found here- there's not much out there on HFI.

Ok- one more quick question: avocados? I love them. My dietician said a quarter of one once per week?

[Oregon gal]

One more: is unsweetened coffee generally ok? Thanks ;-)

[colormist]

Unsweetened coffee and coffees with milk or cream are okay. I'm still up in the air about half & half. It technically looks like it should be okay. I love me some Starbucks plain lattes.

Yes, I get kidney pain sometimes after eating fructose. It probably only occurs when I have too much fructose, but I'm not sure of the amount. If I were hazard to guess, I would say between 0.5 - 1 gram in a given day, but it might be less than that. Holy hell does it hurt, too. I have problems sleeping even because they're tender to the touch. Drinking lots of water seems to help speed the process along. I always want to take painkillers, but I know they would have to be processed by my kidneys or liver and I just don't think putting my kidneys/liver through more difficulties is a very good idea.

It is really, really, really hard to eat out on a regular basis on the HFI diet. I mean, you could if you were really particular with your meal, but I find asking a litany of questions to my server to be exhausting. I usually end up defaulting to plain pasta with butter or a cheeseburger, plain, without a bun. It's much easier to just pack your lunch or go to a places that you know to be safe. Even though your liver and kidneys can heal, it takes a long while and the constant barrage of fructose is not helping. You could end up with kidney or liver failure.

White flour is safe--the generic, cheapy kind. So long as it doesn't say whole wheat on the label anywhere, you should be okay. Whole grains are not safe for anyone with HFI.

Avocados have fructose. If a quarter of an avocado is the only food that you sneak in once a week that has fructose, you might not show any symptoms. That's not to say that it isn't hurting your liver. Think of fructose as a poison--because it does hurt your body, impair your brain, and make you sick. Any amount of fructose you eat is going to hurt you because it's poisoning you.

When HFIers talk about "tolerating" something, this has nothing to do with mutations (that I know of). It has to do with their body's Pavlovian response and how much they have attuned themselves to notice the effects the fructose has on their body. Regina can drink sugar-free sodapop because she doesn't have the Pavlovian response that I developed over sweet-tasting foods. Foods that taste sugary-sweet to me make me very nauseated--even the smell can trigger me regardless of what my liver's reaction might be. I'm so used to getting nauseated from sweet foods that I get nauseated regardless of whether or not the food is safe.

Beans, for example, contain fructose. Some more than others. I usually have a serving size of black beans a week. I don't notice the effect on my body as the amount of fructose is not large enough to cause a serious reaction (still causes hypoglycemia for a few days, though!).

When we HFIers use the word "tolerate" it means that we mentally tolerate the reaction that amount of fructose has on our body. Our livers are still dealing with the fructose the same as always. It is still poisoning our system. Our livers physically cannot process fructose, so all fructose--in any and all amounts, no matter how small--is bad for us. Some of us have sworn off all foods that have fructose and others (like myself) will make sacrifices so we can have black beans in our burritos.

[Oregon gal]

Thank you for your response and the clarification of "tolerate"- That was very helpful :-) this is such a huge learning process- and again, I am so thankful for this group. It's kind of like finally finding "my people" - seeing our shared weird experiences has been really affirming (and freeing in a strange way- I not longer have to defend my distaste for fruit, vegetables, all of the so-called healthy foods). I used to leave my vegetables/salads on the plate until
they were the last thing left to eat- because I didn't like them- I was procrastinating eating them. And then I'd use the excuse for being full as so why I couldn't finish them. I didn't directly link the veggies to the nausea because they didn't taste sweet in the classic sense. My partner would poke fun at me- since he is very into health and loves veggies. So now I have a legit excuse :-)

I am happy to report that this feeling of low lying brain fog has greatly improved. This was what drove me to get tested in the first place- I was fine at work and very functional- it was just the nonessential day to day things that were frustrating. So I tried the elimination diet (pretty much only eating veggies and meat)- that was pretty bad. And it was not making anything better re my brain fog. So then I went to a functional medicine doctor and my kidney functions were high, and I thought it was all the meat/protein. And my poor brother (age 30) was so irritated by his intolerance of sugar that he tried to "overcome" it and desensitize himself by moving to a flat above a natural grocery store, eating high quality ice cream nightly and eating tons of veggies and pasta. The term "poisen" is very helpful- as a newbie- it's still difficult to wrap my head around this whole thing. Anyway- he was slowly poisoning himself. This is a guy who is super fit and health conscience- he became very depressed and had no energy. He went to the doctor- his liver enzymes were super high and his testosterone was undetectable. By chance, I stumbled across HFI and called him- he stopped eating ice cream. Anyway- I didn't really thoroughly look into it- I just stopped eating fruit. And a couple years later I got tested, and now I realize how serious it can be. So that's my story.

Anyhow- my kidney pain is mostly at night as well. And it does hurt!! I felt kind of crazy when the doc said it shouldn't hurt. In a way I'm thankful for the pain because it's kind of like my kidneys

[colormist]

I'm glad I can help. I also didn't like vegetables! I particularly hated tomatoes and onions, but I didn't understand that it was because they had fructose in them. They didn't taste sweet, so I just thought I didn't like them. Other things like sweet potatoes, fruit, and pumpkin were easy to say "I don't like sweet things".

I also went through a phase where I tried to force myself to eat more "healthy sweets" which just made me more ill. It wasn't until my friend was so confounded by me saying "sweets make me sick" and then pounding pixy stix, that she declared my apprehension towards sweets a mental issue. I was quite certain it wasn't mental, so I researched, found my diagnosis, and had it genetically confirmed.

My kidney pain also typically only hits at night. A few times I've noticed it during the afternoon, but it's more common in the evening around bedtime. Thankfully I haven't had kidney pain in over a year, so I know they're doing better.

I'm glad to hear you also have a brother (there's a few of us on here with HFI siblings). It helps to have someone you know to go through the condition together. Is he doing better now?

[Oregon gal]

TPart 2: (dead battery)
My phone battery died mid-post.

Anyhow, I was just saying that for where I am in this new process of trying to rework my diet and really listen to my body- which I was not very good at doing in the past- when I have the kidney pain, I picture my kidneys crying- saying "this is real- please avoid fructose!!!" So tangible and direct feedback at this stage is helping since I struggle with lack of self restraint in the realm of delicious foods.

I am trying to bring my brother along for this ride- he came with me to the metabolic clinic and we met with the nutritionist- she was very nice but didn't know much about HFI which was not helpful. I've been researching and since I've never had much will power- this diagnosis is a bit of a bittersweet relief for me- on one hand now I just have a legitimate justification for my previous "less healthy to the rest of the world" dietary preferences. On the other hand- there are nonsweet foods that have fructose which I really love to eat. My brother is a wonderful guy- but I think that this is pretty overwhelming for him since he has really made a true valiant effort throughout his adult life to eat very healthy - gluten free- lots of organic veggies- you know what I mean- this is pretty counter intuitive to most of what we had grown up with. Do you think uncensored fructose consumption causes or at least really contributes to depression? We've both struggled with that as well. I was really hoping that the nutritionist would have been more knowledgable- because she told him he could eat nuts and gave us a list that had included asparagus and other veggies that I know we can't eat as accepted foods. Does anyone know if we can actually go to the HFI clinic in Boston? I've emailed Dr. Tolen a couple of times but haven't had a response. I would like to take my brother there- I think that would help both of us- but esp him- greatly.

But your description of comparing fructose to poison really is helpful in staying mindful of my HFI. I'm going to try to pass this along to him as well. I find myself trying to rationalize eating just two gourmet breaded aspergus appetizers dipped in some fancy cheesy-wine-walnut sauce (followed by signicant hypoglycemia and then kidney pain later in the night). Thinking of them as mildly poisoning to me will help in the will power department. I'm worried about him- this is not really a wanted lifestyle change. And he didn't seek out this diagnosis- I've kind of brought him along on this ride- but it's very clear he's got it (no formal diagnosis yet). It's really challenging. I feel like the crazy older sister who's on her latest tangent. I try to gently tell him what to avoid and give advice- but don't want to be too pushy either. But this is a big deal!! He quit eating a pound of almonds on his marathon bike rides- and he says he feels way better now. He used to pack a big bag of almonds and a few rolls of sweet tarts. Got him a bread maker too- he reported last night that his homemade sugar-free gluten-free made with almond flour bread was delicious. His girlfriend happily agreed. This is gonna be rough ?

I'm preaching to the choir here. And I'm so grateful there is a choir out there to be a part of!


Sent from my iPad

[colormist]

It is IMPOSSIBLE to get my younger brother to adhere to the diet. He just does not want to change what he eats and is just following his gut (which is somewhat accurate, othertimes very inaccurate). I smacked a Hershey Kiss out of his hand a little while back and yelled out "NO!" I was horrified and it was more of a reflex than anything else. He still ate part of it--while glaring at me. He also drinks all manner of sugary-alcohols which is like a double-whammy on the old HFI liver. It's impossible.

At least your brother sounds like he wants to adhere to a healthy diet. He just needs to redefine what a healthy diet is to him. Maybe Mozarella sticks and homemade jerky on his marathon bike rides instead of almonds? Plain greek yogurt is also HFI-safe (always read the label, of course) and is considered healthy.

Why is your brother gluten free? I often wonder if HFIers pre-diagnosis think they're sensitive to gluten when they're trying to find their diagnosis as a lot of sweet foods have an awful lot of gluten in them.

[Jenni)]

I thought and was told I was gluten intolerant for years as my dad has celiac disease and with all of my gut and "autoimmune" issues it was an assumption that that wa my problem. Years after eliminating gluten and still having the same issues if not more and more severe looks like it was probably just fructose and maybe the fructans in wheat!

I seem to be also sensitive to fructans... Does that happen to some with HFI? Still working in getting diagnosed/tested. The system is so slow and annoying!!! Is there a test I can order myself? Lol

[colormist]

23&Me does a self test. It's fairly inexpensive (as far as medical tests go), but doesn't test for all the HFI markers.

I'm uncertain what fructans are, honestly. If they're made out of fructose or sucrose, then they're undoubtedly bad for HFIers.

[Matt]

Hi guys,

Pepper has fructose 21.4g per 100g (but who can eat 100gs!!).

I have been looking at the peer reviewed papers (im in psych research but get access to any free papers) - between abt 2013 till 2016 this current month (Nov) - in relation to fructose malabsorption (it's not really intolerance, although it feels like it). Which i suffer from, just like you.

Evidence is (i.e. reviews of randomised control trials): 1.fodmap diet designed by monash university (their app is abt $10 aust) is better than placebo, particularly for ppl who have FM. Personally in think its well worth it, each food on their has been tested by Monash University, Australia (those from the US, Monash is a well respected research University in Aust) and helps you avoid reading crazy bloggers and getting yourself confused between several differents possible conclusions. A majority of FM sufferers have other intolerances such as dairy, wheat, garlic, legumes (all which have fancy codewords to describe the food catagory, which you can find in the app). Be sure it's not one of these triggering you while you're searching for that microgram of fructose.

Secondly, (research says) probiotics might be helpful . Try them out but the vegan ones often contains 1000 things - be careful.

Thirdly, you will hear ppl swear glucose sugar helps you absorp the fructose but a 2016 randomised control trial found no difference in symptoms to placebo - dont bother.

A general digestive enzyme pill might work too. Watch out they dont have fennel loaded in there - the enzymes (amalayse, protease, lactase etc pardon my spelling).

There is actually an enzyme on the market for FM in europe and the us (not aust yet) called xylose isomerase. This is a real enzyme, not a fad, and some researcher have found evidence that IT helps digest fructose. We are talking very recent but, the best study i could find was published 2 months ago and convinced me to try it out. Haven't recieved it yet.

There is lots of bullnuts herbalists etc that will tell you outright what you have but go to a researxh clinic if it's the first and only thing you do. By research clinic i mean gastrointestinal - someone with a phd in gastrointestonal medicine. I know of one in the us and one in aust so be very sceptical. Try and do a google scholar search of the person who runs your clinic - they should be cited by several other papers. No other clinics in these two countries write in peer reviwed journals so please dont listen to them. Expect to pay big money for their services... but you get real evidence for your money.

Matt

[Matt]

Feb 5, 2016 15:02:38 GMT -5 colormist said:

23&Me does a self test. It's fairly inexpensive (as far as medical tests go), but doesn't test for all the HFI markers.

I'm uncertain what fructans are, honestly. If they're made out of fructose or sucrose, then they're undoubtedly bad for HFIers.

A 2016 sytematic review found very little evidence for breath tests for FM - i know they're cheap but dont bother. Do the fodmap diet. You can just dl the app for $10 from monash uni or see a gastro specialist. Eleminate all the fodmaps (including fractans) - if you don't know what fractans are you should before you decide on fructose. fractans are another carb wich are often (but not always) malabsorbed by FM's mainly in things like garlic and onion.

[ukbill]

A table spoon of black pepper corns would give anyone a bad reaction!.. Wow your poor gut!

I use black pepper all the time but never more than perhaps 1g (a tablespoon is about 10g)

I would bet that the amount you has is where the problem occured from.

[oneladyff]

Has anyone talked to Dr Tolan recently? Is he any closer to a cure for us?