Beer! :)

[ukbill]

OK been looking at home brewing and found a few recipes for making decent home brew that should be 100% HFI safe

I will post some when I get a chance .

I have posted before about the safest beers being those made to the German Purity Standards.

This was from personal experience and I had no real scientific proof as to why they were so much safer than other beers.

I thought that American beers (Coors, Bud etc) made me feel quite bad after a few bottles, but I did not know why... I do now!

Apparently the yeast used to brew beer has an "attenuation" factor.. which means it will not convert all the sugar in the Wort (raw beer before brewing) into alcohol. certain yeasts only convert about 45 to 55% of the sugars the rest remain in the beer.. so beer made from Sweet corn (for example) will contain naturally some fructose that is left over from the brewing.

This was a revelation and explained my own experiences of drinking lager made from Sweet corn, However most American beers also have added HFCS! A double whammy!

So now I can harden up my advice to say ONLY drink beer made to the German purity standard or brew your own from Malted Barley, Dextrose, hops and water.

The German Purity standard is Malted Barley hops yeast and water nothing else is allowed!

I will have the result of my first brew in 41 years in a week or so I will let you know how it go's.

Bottoms up!

[charlie]

Bill,Bill,Bill.

BEER


Sorry, just read this after reading you up on your soap box AGAIN about glucose...........



Explain to me why it is so important for you to find a safe beer, after all beer is alcohol and alcohol affects the liver, and you have a health condition that affects the liver.



Then maybe after explaining your need, you will have answered the question that comes up so much about parents wanting to find a safer sweet option for their kids that really want a bit of normal life.

[Tammy]

Well Charlie, you missed one very big point on this post also. "brew your own from Malted Barley, Dextrose, hops and water."

Since dextrose can never be completely pure and safe to feed anyone, how is it now pure enough to use to make beer?

[charlie]

Ahhh, good point, I was too busy spluttering over the beer bit still but did spot that bit too......

Dextrose




Has anyone analysed fructose content of hops, after all they are a plant......

MALTED barley, supicious

shall I continue.

sorry everyone else, calmer now................

[ukbill]

Ok
I will go and find the data on maltose and dextrose.
There will be a tiny amount of fructose in the maltose but belive it to be in the region of micrograms per kilo of maltose.

Maltose is long chain glucose molecules and as such are idential to any starch such as rice wheat. And is 100% HFI safe.
Dextrose
While i can find no i formation on the manifacture proceas to make Dextrose sudfice to say those HFI who were mainlineing on glucose and dieing as a result of the Fructose contamination all reported recovery once thwy swapped from Glucose to Dextose.
So even before the brewing process which converts the sugar into alcohol the level of fructose per volume of beer will be tiny.

With regards to my liver.
Even before I went 100% HFO safe with my diet my liver has never shown that it is stressed in any way.
My liver is checked everytime i have a blood test (approximatle once a year)
You can be assured that if there are any changes that are detrimental i will stop drinking the very odd beer i consume.
I will also poat a warning on this forum as well.

You Charlie and Tammy are able to have a glass or bottle of red wine of a glass og coke if you want one.
Having the odd beer is not a problem to anyone with or witout HFI so long as its with in reason.

I do not see a problem with informing people who have very limited recreational choices of drinks how to make themselves HFI SAFE beverage.

I will however work out the maths and let peoplw know the fructose content of a home made beer. I also have some anylitical gear which will let me know the resudual dextrose content of the beer.

[charlie]

OK, deeeeeeeeep breath Charlie.............

Thank you Bill, you have answered the point I was trying to make....

Apr 7, 2014 17:07:36 GMT -5 ukbill said:

Ok
I will go and find the data on maltose and dextrose.
There will be a tiny amount of fructose in the maltose but belive it to be in the region of micrograms per kilo of maltose.
- This won't be such an issue because it will have been broken down in the brewing process


Dextrose
While i can find no information on the manifacture proceas to make Dextrose sudfice to say those HFI who were mainlineing on glucose and dieing as a result of the Fructose contamination all reported recovery once thwy swapped from Glucose to Dextose.
So even before the brewing process which converts the sugar into alcohol the level of fructose per volume of beer will be tiny.
- The point I was trying to make is you are slamming Dextrose in every post you make these days, then in the same breath posting a recipe that uses it. Ok again, it will be brewed so looking at an end product of it but if it is so contaminated why are you risking using it in your beer recipe, it is double standards......

With regards to my liver.
Even before I went 100% HFO safe with my diet my liver has never shown that it is stressed in any way.
My liver is checked everytime i have a blood test (approximatle once a year)
You can be assured that if there are any changes that are detrimental i will stop drinking the very odd beer i consume.
I will also poat a warning on this forum as well.
- Glad your liver is OK, but others on here, do they have healthy enough livers to cope if they copy your recipe, you are giving advise for others to follow by posting this recipe, do you take responsibility if they bugger their livers more as they have not followed your pure life to avoid liver damage.

But here you answer the point I was hoping you would:
You Charlie and Tammy are able to have a glass or bottle of red wine of a glass og coke if you want one.
- Yes, we can, and you choose to try and emulate that possibility by copying a recipe for beer as safely as you know how using DEXTROSE, so all others are trying to do for their children is emulate as close as possible what other kids can have at the blink of an eye. These kids are growing up in the modern era that yes, very sadly is very focused on sweet things, I see it on the CSID facebook page, everybody wants cake and sweet recipes. You grew up when things like that were a very rare treat, Even me, I'm not too far behind you , we didn't have sweets and puddings every day like they do now. It isn't a good way for the world to be going and people are realising that but people still have the right to choose to treat their kids if they can and by looking for the safest alternatives is the best way forward. You go ahead and brew your beer, and you enjoy drinking it but allow others their safe sweets. Megan often wants what she can't have, you find the safest treat, she tries it once then doesn't want it again anyway.

Having the odd beer is not a problem to anyone with or witout HFI so long as its with in reason.
- and the same goes for responsible use of safe sweet options

I do not see a problem with informing people who have very limited recreational choices of drinks how to make themselves HFI SAFE beverage.
- and we do not see a problem with informing people of the safest options using glucose, and must be permitted to do so freely. I know you have read about contamination but it is still the safest option to satisfy a childs curiosity and keep them safe.

[Tammy]

Well said Charlie

[ukbill]

My aim is to help all people with HFI and Fructosemia have as good and long happy lives as is possible.

No one who dose not have HFI they really has any (VERY RUDE WORD DELETED} idea what its like.

Going to family gatherings events and places where meals are being served is enough of a problem for us even those of us sensible enough to avoid ALL sweet flavoured foods / drinks.

All I am am saying is if as an Adult if you are at an event or at home and fancy a refreshing sparking drink that is safe for us and not sparking spring water, then drinking the odd Beer made to the German Purity standards is not going to cause any HFI a problem unless you drink too many of them

So Beer like this is not that easy to find (outside Germany) and expensive even in Germany, so all I am doing it making my own and reporting the results for others who may wish to try for themselves to try if they want to.

It might not prove safe. However the beer I have brewed before using sugar did not cause me any noticeable side effects that anyone drinking beer will not expect to have. That was a long time ago and at the time I was not on anything like a safe HFI diet. So I might well now feel an effect from the sugar now (as with none German purity standard beers I drink on occasion do if I drink enough of them).

If it proves to cause me a problem then I will report it and also I will get my resulting beer checked for remaining sugar content. However the testing equipment I have will only show total sugar content not the split between Glucose / sucrose/ fructose. So I will calculate this, and put my maths here for people to check also.

Hence my posting this thread and I make absolutely no apologies for this not now, not ever.

[ukbill]

Charlie you said.
- Yes, we can, and you choose to try and emulate that possibility by copying a recipe for beer as safely as you know how using DEXTROSE, so all others are trying to do for their children is emulate as close as possible what other kids can have at the blink of an eye. These kids are growing up in the modern era that yes, very sadly is very focused on sweet things, I see it on the CSID facebook page, everybody wants cake and sweet recipes. You grew up when things like that were a very rare treat, Even me, I'm not too far behind you , we didn't have sweets and puddings every day like they do now. It isn't a good way for the world to be going and people are realising that but people still have the right to choose to treat their kids if they can and by looking for the safest alternatives is the best way forward. You go ahead and brew your beer, and you enjoy drinking it but allow others their safe sweets. Megan often wants what she can't have, you find the safest treat, she tries it once then doesn't want it again anyway.

I will bet you the equivalent of £50 in 25 years time that feeding cakes, cookies or sweet flavoured foods to any children will be classed as much a case of child abuse as giving them f*gs (cigarettes ) is now.

70 odd years ago children used to smoke from 5 to 7 years old if they could afford the cost of a cigarette and it was considered OK.

The same will be true for sugar!

Bear in mind that today a small tin of coke now exceeds the recommended maximum amount of sugar for 1 day for an ADULT! so how much lower is it going to go?

I am only ahead of the pack when it comes to being sensible over sugar consumption, so please don't shoot the messenger! bear in mind children born in Europe now are expected to live to be 120 years old.. so most of their lives they will be both addicted to the sweet taste of sugar and knowing they should not be eating it.. a sensible parent will provide their child with a set of skills and life values which are designed not only to cope with the world as it is now but (particularly in the matter of health) how the world will be in the future..

The Future is Sugar free.

The problem is all (ok most) of the population (excluding a few of us with HFI) are totally addicted to sugar.. so the reduction to zero sugar is going to have to be done slowly.. but it will be done you can be 100% certain on that.

Addicts always think their way of life is the only way to live.. and cannot see a problem with their way of living.. but none addicts can see the fallacy and lies they are telling themselves all the time. If you know many drug addicts and alcoholics you will now I am speaking the truth.

[charlie]

Bill, do feel free to experiment with Beer, I hope you find it works as it is nice to have a treat once in a while. As long as it comes with a massive disclaimer when you release the details on this board that is fine.

That was not my point on this thread and I think others can understand the point I was making which was nothing to do with alcohol, more with the psychology of allowing treats so I will leave it here, everyone has different opinions on things and they are entitled to them but bickering on here will not help matters. If you want to discuss it further I will off board very happily but not on this page.

[ukbill]

Everything I post I cross check for safety as you know Charlie, what really started this was my discovery as to why I cannot drink many of the beers usually for sale.

I want all adult HFI'rs to know that in particular American beers not only are mostly made from sweet corn and up to 40% of the sugar that is naturally present in sweet corn will remain in the finished beer but also after pasteurization (to kill the remaining yeasts) HFCS is added to many of beers.

I found this in a British book written by an American and published by an American publisher on brewing and beer recipes.

This is an important warning.

I can post the ISBN number for the book in question if anyone doubts my word on the subject.

Because of this I am feeling less inclined to sample new brews and have decided to make some of my own where I can control the content make sure they are safe.

Hence the very expensive sugar refractometer I have, I will also be able to use some of my long neglected Laboratory technicians skills I got from working for 7 years in a quality control lab.

So I will publish the facts plain and simple of my research both the good and the bad in the hope it helps someone somewhere in the world.

[charlie]

I am not sure we need to quote Sucrose consumption facts on this board, no-one with this condition will be having it and certainly no parent would be giving it to an HFI child, therefore you don't need to quote this.

If you are promoting beer, make sure people realise the safe limits to it exactly, ie half a pint once a week is safe, or every day, so they don't go whoopee and down 6 pints. Alcohol is a drug to the brain and once you have some it affects the cravings just as much as sugar does to someone, and if they don't have good self control then this has to be spelt out, that is all I am trying to say. I know you are very aware of what is safe for you, you have researched alot and I commend you for that but remember everybody is different and they may try and go off and source their own beer which is wrong and will end up ill, will you take responsibility? You do say at the top of your post "should be 100% safe", people reading this months later I can guarantee will not read the word "should".

I have modified my posts slightly above for anyone who is confused and yes, it was inflammatory to try to make a point, and the rest of this discussion is now off board.