Enlighten me about "winter" spinach etc

[nicoleh]

ok, so what is winter spinach exactly? is it a different variety, or just about the temperature it's grown in? and is Australian winter-grown spinach ok? our temps rarely get below zero Celsius, more often around 4 C at the coldest in Brisbane. So is that too cold?

Is it possible to tell from the appearance, taste or smell of spinach whether or not it is 'winter' or not?
Here in Aust spinach doesn't grow much at all in summer because it's so hot it just bolts straight away. so I wonder if our winter spinach is the US summer spinach and your winter spinach just doesn't exist here? I'm confused!

I'm just looking for some help here as DD's still having a low-level fructose diarrhoea every day now and her bicarbonate has dropped again. Not much has changed in terms of what I'm eating except a tablet I'm taking that has maltodextrin in it (I think it's not pure) - I've stopped that with some improvement, but there's still more going on.

She's still definitely bothered by what I eat. Our new metabolic doctor is testing my breastmilk after I eat a big fructose-filled birthday dinner on Monday night. I won't be feeding her that night, I'll just donate the milk to the pathology lab instead. I'm so interested to see if they detect fructose in it.

TIA!

[kate]

Hi. I have no idea about the spinach. My eldest can tolerate it but my youngest can't.

It will be really interesting to hear whether the fructose ends up in your breastmilk. I'm sure you're aware of this already but be cautious feeding her the day after too as it takes between 1 and 16 hours for what you eat to end up in your breastmilk - or so I was told anyway.

Your new Dr seems to have his head screwed on, what a good idea to check your breastmilk.

[nicoleh]

I also forgot to ask - are there any other foods that are affected by temperatures they're grown at?

[ukbill]

EDIT

So we have to assume if for example you drink a glass of fruit juice the fructose spike in your blood stream will peak in about 15 to 20 min and start nearly instantly because Fructose and glucose are also adsorbed through the skin of the mouth and throat.

Fructose and Glucose both act like a salt and have a high osmotic pressure. I'm assuming this otherwise it would not go through the skin of the mouth so very quickly.

Therefore it will permeate all organs within a few seconds to max 20 min.

The breakdown of the Fructose will take a certain time depending on dosage and your ability to dump Fructose. This both is genetically influenced and also dependent on how close you are to becoming a diabetic.

We have to assume Fructose will cause diabetes in everyone (or at least 85%) if dosage is high enough.

My cousin worked on Seismic servery through out Africa for many years, (looking for Oil).

The crew were given Coke for free as liquid to drink (you have to drink a lot in 45+ degrees C and even more if you are doing a hard physical job.

He drank water which he bought because he did not like sweating Coke like sugar solution!

85% of the people who worked for the company in Africa are now diabetic and are suing Coke a Cola for damages.

OK back to spinach I can only manage a little spinach and even then I have to remove the stalks and the main "veins" on the leaves, I do this with a sharp knife and cut them out. I then can eat it. I eat both summer and winter spinach (the summer version is just young leaves the winter version is more like green cabbage leaves)

I find in green plants most of the sugar is kept in the white pithy stalks (if the plant has no significant underground root to store it in like a turnip or Rhubarb)

If a plant has a large root to store the energy in, for example rhubarb or beetroot then the stalks contain very much less sugar in them, and are usually HFI safe ('r).

I use young beetroot leaves in a salad to give it lots more colour and make it look better, if I'm preparing food for other people to eat as well as myself.

I do not go mad cutting all the veins out but do not myself eat too many of the stalks.

The green tops of the leaves on spring onions (scallions) are safe'sh although they tend to give me wind and digestive problems if I eat too many too often.

None of these would I recommend in the case of Nicoleh's daughter because she is very sensitive indeed.

[charlie]

As for spinach I think the difference is in the way it is grown, the time of year and variety. The older coarse spinaches will have a lower sugar content. but for some the problem may be oxalates which can cause kidney problems.

Interestingly Quinoa is also high in oxalates. I have seen it mentioned several times recently that some cannot tolerate it which surprised me as it is something I have recently been looking into as a safe alternative to potatoes and rice. As far as I can find it is low in sugars, high in protein and supposed to be a new superfood but maybe the oxalates are the problem?

In general I think veg vary from variety to variety but also what time of the year they are grown and how young they are when harvested. Sadly the modern palate prefer tender, sweet tasting veg so the companies are sourcing those varieties and growing them in artificial environments rather than us sticking to the seasonal varieties our grandparents used to use. Therefore the sugar content is going to be higher than it should be.

[nicoleh]

Hi Charlie,
quinoa has a lot more fructose than most people could tolerate I think. it is 870mg sugars per 100g - though we don't have a breakdown of what kind of sugars that is, as a comparison, brown rice has only 350mg/100g, and most people think brown rice is too much (in the case of the brown rice, it's sucrose, so I guess it's 175mg fructose in 100g. Presuming it's also sucrose for quinoa it would be heaps higher.

quinoa: ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/6359?fg=&man=&lfacet=&format=&count=&max=25&offset=&sort=&qlookup=quinoa

brown rice: ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/6271?fg=&man=&lfacet=&count=&max=25&sort=&qlookup=brown+rice&offset=&format=Full&new=

I'm not sure about oxalates in quinoa, but I know it is very high in phytate which is similar. fortunately phytate can be broken down by sour leavening or by 24 hour soaking before hand, in acidulated water (or better yet, in a phytase liquid that can be made by soaking brown rice in water for 24 hours, then changing the rice and re-soaking in the same liquid for another 24 hours, then repeat twice more. after that there's enough phytase in that liquid to degrade the phytate in whole grains within a 24 hour period of soaking. However that liquid would also probably have a fair bit of fructose, but if that's not someone's problem it is a very helpful thing to do.

spinach: I have always been buying the little baby leaves. would I be better off with the bigger leaved 'English spinach' then? (the Australian database only lists English spinach- I think it is older than baby spinach but otherwise the same.

oh, so confusing. anyway, dd did a normal poo yesterday after I took out that vitamin K supplement so I may not need to worry about the spinach after all. (thank goodness). I don't eat much of it, but a few leaves on my hamburger really lightens it up.

[ukbill]

I was breast fed for much of my 1st year of life.. I would take nothing else.

Because everything else was sweet.

We discovered the breast feeding and drink by accident.

I do not recommend it I was only mentioning it because a lot of what a breast feeding mother eats comes straight over into the milk.

My daughters mother for example could not eat anything spicy while breast feeding because my daughter complained like mad if she did and did not want to drink for several hours after her mother had eaten anything spicy.

So all I am saying is if you are the mother of a HFI child then because there is a higher than normal risk subsequent children might be HFI also then removing all refined Fructose / Sucrose / honey and high Fructose fruit like grapes, from your diet while breastfeeding might be a good idea .