Sourdough bread

[tummyache]

Yum! Anyone else love Sourdough bread? Recently tried it again after years of going gluten free. Read how this old fashioned leavening process, with a naturally fermented “starter”, kills the sugars + gluten in the bread. [Don’t know that I would try it if diagnosed a celiac] I used to love sourdough bread as a kid when I innately avoided fructose + sweet tasting foods. What kind of bread do you all eat? Here in the USA most all “regular” store-bought bread has added sugars. Would French bread be OK too?

[colormist]

I can regularly find sourdough, french, italian, and rye breads that are free from bad sugars. French bread warmed up in the oven is one of my favorite things ever.

If there is a Panera Bread anywhere near your residences, I HIGHLY recommend fresh-baked Panera breads. They have a mouth-watering Asiago Cheese Loaf and a pretty darn good Sourdough.

[denverjay]

i agree with colormist, sourdough, french and rye breads are all good to go.

[shereebailey83]

Ciabatta bread is also totally HFI free, its an italian bread and quite commonly found here in australia not sure about over there

[urmensch]

I had thought that plain French bread might be OK, but it didn't work out
for me. My city is not large; all the bakeries seem to specialize in
sweets. A couple of upscale supermarkets and Walmart offer fresh baked
French bread, but I still get a reaction.

I don't know what difference sourdough would make. The leavening is
done with yeast in both cases. With sourdough you just keep growing
the yeast in the starter you save for the next batch. The important thing
is to add no sugar and ferment out any sugar that was in the flour to
begin with. This means three long rises. I don't think many commercial
bakeries are going to do this.

I have been successful baking my own French bread, but the flour seems
to make a big difference. All-purpose flour gives me a reaction no matter
what I do. This and many other flours contain barley malt. This contains
enzymes that convert starch into sugar. Also barley contains ten times
as much fructans as wheat. We can't digest those, but bacteria in our
gut can turn these into fructose and cause a delayed reaction.

If it is a sour flavor you are after, you can add citric acid or green onions
to the dough. The green part of green onions seems to be OK.

As long as I use a high protein artisan quality flour, no sugar, and dust
with potato flour; I seem to tolerate bread well enough. That is a big
breakthrough for me. Clearly my issue is not gluten, but I seem to be
more sensitive to fructose than many of you. Or perhaps I am more
sensitive to fructans for some reason. I have long known that barley
malt is a problem for me: even in small quantities. I long thought that
was due to gluten intolerance, but clearly that is not the case.

[nicoleh]

HI Urmensch,
sorry I've just seen this post here after posting in the flatbread topic. To answer your query about if sourdough is different - it's very different! A proper sourdough culture is NOT yeast. it may contain some natural yeasts, but good quality sourdough starter is lactic acid-producing bacteria, not yeast based. the bacteria are far better at breaking down gluten than yeast is. Thus with a proper sourdough you only need a single 4 hour rise to get rid of most sugars, and even most gluten is gone in that time. now I know from a friend who owns a bakery that many of the good artisan bakeries ferment their bread (rise it) for 24 hours, in which case gluten is completely gone.

you are correct that if you're using yeast you need 3 long rises (or often 2 is enough) but not so with bacteria. many bakeries do short-cut and add yeast as well, but not the really good ones. certainly if you did it at home you'd not be adding yeast to it unless you were looking for a quick fix option.

yes, starch can be hydrolysed by enzymes into sugar, but as starch contains only glucose molecules and not fructose, any sugar that is broken down from the barley malt or the flour with it is glucose and thus fine for HFI. it does sound like fructans might be a problem for you - have you checked out the possibility of fructose malabsorption? there are more problems with fructans in that than in HFI.

My DD could not possibly tolerate the green onions you mention, but the fructans are totally fine.

have you also considered that you could have a barley allergy? that sounds like you're pretty sensitive there.

happy baking!
PS- if you'd like to know how to grow your own "proper" bacterial sourdough starter from scratch, you'll find some useful information from the Weston A Price organisation - a local chapter leader would probably even be able to give you some starter to get you going. if you're in the US, there are little local groups everywhere.

[urmensch]

Thanks Nicoleh. I didn't see any response in the flatbread thread for a few days, and this one also seemed relevant, so
I tried again.

I've been looking at other cultures than just yeast. Biffidus is supposed to digest fructans, so I thought of adding
it to the yeast. I will have to check out the sourdough starter resources you mention.

From what I read, the green part of green onions is supposed to be OK. I don't seem to have much problem
with cooked onions: only raw ones. I can eat yellow onions after 30 minutes in a pressure cooker. Of course
I try to avoid the *sweet* onions that people want to sell me now. Everything seems to be either sweet or
candy onions out here. When I can find them, the plain yellow onions are cheap.

The theory behind this comes from wondering why baked apples are not sweet like raw ones. I searched
online for days. Apparently the chemistry behind this is not well understood. Fructose begins to decompose
at 70 C. At 100 degrees it takes hours, but at pressure cooker temperatures much less time.
Glucose is more stable and decomposes at a higher temperature. So pressure cooking eliminates
most of the fructose. Anyway it seems to work for me; I now have homemade orange marmalade
to go with my slice of toast in the morning. Nothing in it but pureed orange. It is a very mild sweetness
much less than the raw oranges. What I really crave is the bitter flavor from the peel.

[clmims]

  Most chain store "sour dough" bread is made from the same bulk dough batch as everything else. I have gone directly to the top managers of our local HEB stores in the San Antonio, TX area to find "true" sour dough bread. "Kosher" bread products are safe except for some sweet breads. I make Biscuits and yeast pancakes with Buttermilk and lots of yeast to eat up the sugar. They give off a wonderful bear smell. 
  Please be an outspoken survivor of HFI. Most Doctors do not believe HFI exits. Many babies die needlesly a horrible death from kidney shutdown from infant formula with high fructose corn syrup in it. I wear a Medic Alert that says SALNE ONLY Fructose Intolerant clmims old guy in San Antonio

[Tammy]

Hi Charles, nice to see you back. We can always use more of the old guys around here.

[fred]

I make white bread in a "West Bend" bread machine and I use Bread Flour and I use to to use Dextrose. In recent times however, I just leave the sugar out and it rises just the same.

Most family operated Italian Bakeries, in our part of Ontario, do not use sugar in most of their bread but French bread (French Stick) usually has sugar in it.

Fred