How does recovering from hypoglycemia work?

[mesologist]

I know this is a board for patients and family. But I have a question I can’t find an answer to and I hope one of the HFI people might know and is willing to help me. I am an alternative health care provider in Europe and I have to write a thesis. The subject of my thesis is fructose and fructose intolerance. All three forms I could identify. HFI included. This forum helped me a lot to see the problems and helped me to choose the subject of my thesis because there is not enough known about. I want to raise awareness among my colleagues.



I watched the video from Jennie Sanders: www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY8RWcdfsfU



Is was very helpful and clear. In a nutshell, this is what she explains. Glucose and fructose are absorbed in the liver cells after consumption of sugar. The liver than “tries” to convert the glucose and fructose into glycogen and fatty acids. Fructose is converted into fructose-1-phosphate (Fru-1-P) with the main reason to trap it in the cell for further digestion. With fructose further digestion is impossible because aldolase B is not present for HFI people and fructose-1-phosphat0e is not converted into DHAP or glyceraldehyde. The absorption of glucose goes on until the blood glucose level is the same as the glucose level inside the liver cells and causes hypoglycemia. When the blood sugar drops, the cell wants to convert glycogen back into glucose to give to the blood. But the Fru-1-P prevents the enzyme glucokinase to retreat in the nucleus of the cell. Glucokinase in turn keeps converting glucose into G-6-P. So the glucose is not released into the blood. But it stays in the cell. If this circle is not broken this will go on until death follows. So the blood sugar needs to be raised by giving a safe carbohydrate and the blood sugar will stabilize after a few hours.

Since most people who have HFI, if not all of them, have at least experienced this once in his or her life this circle is luckily broken.



My question is: How? How is it possible that the blood sugar levels restore to normal without Aldolase B? Does the Fru-1-P go away? Will the cell change its behavior? Or does something else happen?



To anyone who will help: thanks in advance.

Mesologist

[colormist]

I've been wondering this exact same thing since watching that video. I've viewed a few other videos as well and nobody really discloses what happens to break the cycle. I'm not sure they will ever specifically observe what happens.

I can, however, tell you what I know, my general hypothesis about what's going on in my liver, and what makes me feel better. Maybe with that information you'll be able to develop a hypothesis as to what breaks the cycle?

This just happened to me this week. I have been eating romaine lettuce every day for a week and not being particularly very diligent at making sure I'm only eating green bits. My urine has been slowly becoming darker yellow-orange color all week long. I'm not sure what took me so long to realize it was the lettuce. I wasn't feeling any serious symptoms until the weekend.

Clearly my kidneys were doing their best to filter out the fructose. My guess is that they do their best to help break the cycle. Pretty sure this is a very slow process, since it can go on for a day or so.

Typically, if you eat too much fructose or sweeteners, you begin to feel ill within, say, 30 minutes or so. The stomach somehow gets a signal that there is unsafe food and it needs to not be in the stomach. There have been occasions where I purged up nothing but sickly sweet sugary bile and acid. I had consumed other food, but it seemed my stomach held off on digesting the fructose/sucrose.

If I start to feel nauseated, I usually eat some safe food. This will stave off the nausea. I view it as "distracting" my stomach with something other than fructose. If I eat enough, then I don't feel nauseous at all. I know it would be better to purge, but I really don't like doing that. I don't think anyone does, honestly.

No matter how small amount of fructose is ingested, I will eventually feel hypoglycemia hit if I haven't ate anything in four hours. Eating safe foods is the quickest way to get rid of the hypoglycemia. For some people it is saltine, milk, white rice -- usually something full of fast-burning carbs. I like potato chips. Potato chips and milk are amazingly quick at dealing with the hypoglycemia and keeping it away for a long while. The only problem is I have an inability to stop eating. It's like the "I'm full" signal is completely deactivated until the hypoglycemia goes away. If I could make myself eat more slowly, this might not be an issue, but I'm usually ravenous by the time the hypoglycemia sets in.

Usually one session of binge eating chips and milk is enough to level me out and make the hypoglycemia go away.

After viewing that video, I'm pretty certain this gives a massive influx of glucose to stop/slow whatever process is going on in the liver. I do not know what happens to the Fru-1-P, but if I had to guess it would be that it is eventually filtered out through the kidneys--otherwise I would think the hypoglycemia would just return just as horribly as it did before the binge-eating session.

In short, I think it's a steady influx of glucose that breaks the process. For me, it's every four hours until my urine is no longer dark yellow/sweet smelling. Since it's damned-near impossible to avoid eating fructose all the time, I typically keep some safe food in my purse for emergencies when I feel my blood sugar begin to drop, otherwise I try to eat something every four hours. My entire life is planned around regularly scheduled mealtimes.

I'm not the be-all end-all on HFI, so I hope a few others will respond and provide their own experiences and hypothesis.

[antonia]

My daughter has no diagnosis, yet, so I will not comment other than to say I'm super excited to see someone in research asking these kind of questions! I really believe there ought to be chemical indicators for HFI other than elevated liver enzymes. It is published that HFI can cause kidney damage but I have never seen an explanation as to why or what symptoms are associated with the strain it must put on the kidneys. I have wondered many times what role the kidneys play in HFI. Do they rid the the body of fructose or fructose byproducts (like Colormist said, they must make their way out of the liver eventually otherwise hypoglycemia would continue indefinitely)? And, if so, could there be a chemical urine test that indicates the body is not processing fructose like it should be? I have read many accounts by those with HFI experiencing kidney pain, sweet smelling urine (or diapers from parents with little ones), increased thirst and urine output, dehydration, recurring yeast infections, etc. that seem to indicate the kidneys go into overdrive when fructose is ingested and may be excreting sugars and/or sugar byproducts that cannot be processed by the liver.

[mesologist]

Thank you both for the response. It is great to get some feedback.



I feel obliged to tell a bit more about my profession. I am not a researcher, unfortunately for you. I did drop this question also at a profound researcher in my country though. And if I don’t get an answer I will try someone else. So the word gets out a little.

I am a mesologist. We are a small group of independent health care providers and we treat only chronic deceases. We build a bridge between regular and alternative medicine. But by law we are alternative medicine. This means we are not allowed to request blood, urine, stool or other medical tests. We use other diagnostic functions.



I came in contact with HFI through a patient. I was touched by the problems HFI people encounter. I want to raise a bit of awareness by my colleagues. Not only for HFI but also for fructose malabsorption and a fructokinase deficiency. Indirectly this raises awareness by family doctors since we cannot diagnose or primarily treat a liver enzyme deficiency. When we suspect a person to have HFI we send them back to their family doctors or internists with a letter explaining what to look for and why.



So why is HFI in my thesis if we can’t do much about it? Because I cannot cure a liver enzyme deficiency it doesn’t mean I can’t help with the possible negative side effects when fructose is ingested. Mesologists treat people as unique individuals and as a whole. A physician treats only the liver and tries to find a way to put the enzyme in the liver. Humans are not able to that (yet). A mesologist will look at the person with all his problems and complete health history. We can help prevent the hypoglycemia by giving personal dietary advice. We can also help with secondary problems resulting from hypoglycemia, possible vitamin and mineral shortages or constipation due to the necessary diet.



For Antonia;

I hope you'll get some clarity soon. Not knowing can be very difficult.
About the kidneys. In my opinion you are right to worry about them. They basically get all the garbage the liver (and the rest of the body) wants to get rid of. They are a profound garbage men in the body but not the only ones. They also make hormones, play a key role in maintaining blood pressure and mineral management. I know there have been researches done on the influence of fructose on damaged kidneys. Not in relation to HFI or FM though. Kidneys like everything in the body are made for their function. When healthy they should be able to their job and put in a little overtime because excreting fructose is not usually in the job description. 
When it comes to yeast infections. Yeast is normally present on the skin and in the intestine and does its job for you. When your resistance is low the yeast thrives, evolves to a fungus and causes problems. The HFI diet is usually low in fibers. The bacteria in the intestines use them as food (they love fructanes). Normally these bacteria control the yeast. When the intestinal flora is low it can’t control the yeast any more. This could be one reason why so many HFI people have recurring yeast infections. But antibiotics can do the same for everyone else. This fungus actually excretes a product that the kidneys need to excrete again. Not so bad in health, but when the kidneys are working hard to excrete fructose at the same time it can become a bit much. So the best thing you can do is keep your daughter in tip top condition as much as possible as soon as you know how.

[bananafish]

Mesologist,

I have been doing a lot of reading on this subject and I'm pretty convinced that all of the damage to the liver and kidney are due to the drop in ATP occurring in both the liver and renal tubules as a consequence of the sequestration of Pi caused by the buildup of F-1-P (rather than being caused by, say, processing F-1-P).

I haven't yet found a definitive answer to the question about the fate of F-1-P in the liver. I have my own theory. F-1-P is of course formed by the phosphorylation of fructose by fructokinase. This is a reversible reaction. I believe that there is some sort of signal that either halts the phosphorylation of remaining fructose, or favors the desphosphorylation reaction. Thus, you create a situation that is basically equivalent to essential fructosuria, and thus fructose is excreted in the urine. And, clinically, fructose is seen in the urine of HFI patients after fructose ingestion. If the body were further processing it in the kidney, I would assume you would end up with a different sugar or byproduct in the urine, or nothing, if the body metabolized it completely. But fructose is seen, suggesting an essential fructosuria-type situation. But it is much more harmful than essential fructosuria, because the buildup of F-1-P, even if relatively short-lived, deprives liver and kidney tissues of ATP, resulting in damage. [Note that by this theory I would not expect all F-1-P to be dephosphorylated and excreted - some would remain, possibly explaining the lingering effects that some HFI sufferers feel post-consumption. I'm just trying to account for how the bulk of the F-1-P gets eliminated, because, even without glucose infusion, blood sugar does return to normal and fructose is excreted, suggesting that the extreme F-1-P buildup does not persist forever. As for the fate of the small amount of remaining F-1-P, I'm not sure. I would think that it could be degraded or broken down by natural hydrolysis reactions. Reactions not mediated by enzymes are slow, but the do occur.]

This can happen on a lesser scale in people without HFI if they consume excess fructose, causing similar damage to liver and kidneys (I've seen lots of papers about non-alcoholic fatty liver induced by excess fructose consumption - horrible, given the amount of fructose that a typical Westerner consumes. And free fructose seems to be more harmful than an equivalent amount of fructose tied up sucrose, even in the presence of an equivalent amount of free glucose. We as humans were just not built to have a ton of free fructose).

[ukbill]

Bananafish you have an interesting hypothesis here as do the people above.
Not being a medically trained person but who has read a great deal of research papers about both the metabolisim of Fructose in an HFI person and in normal people (the video "Sugar the bitter truth" is a good starting point) I get lost easily in the complex internal workings of our metabolisms.

I had thought the problems with Hypoglycemia are partly caused by all the available blood phosphate being tied up in Fructose Phosphate. This is usually a quickly converted catalyst with the phosphate being given back to the blood in short order.. I assumed the controlling mechanism would see all the Fructose phosphate and assume this was being in process of conversion and so damps down the available glucose supply..

This is certainly a massive simplification of the process and possibly well wide of the mark but its the closest I have come to understanding it.

There are 2 forms of HFI / Fructosemia one is the "normal" HFI where a tiny amount of ALdolaseB is still produced in our kidneys which according to research done on an HFI patent Fred (who used to be on this forum) allowed the safe conversion of up to 75mg per day of fructose.

The 2nd form seems to be a double zero version where no ALdolaseB is produced even in the kidneys.. these poor people have a far less happy prognosis.

When it comes to liver damage from my own experience and others I have spoken to our livers (like everyone's) is very good at regeneration and self repair given 1/2 a chance.

Children with HFI who have had a diagnosis of "fatty liver" have not appeared to respond to a Fructose free diet initially and still remain very ill for several months.. however if the diet is kept sufficiently low in Fructose after about 6 months the child will "switch on" and recover at an amazing rate.

It took me over 6 months to recover after a bad "challenge test" where the Doctors got the amount wrong by at least 1 decimal place.. and pumped 150g of Fructose intravenously putting me in a coma for some hours, and causing them quite a panic apparently..

I do not think I fully recovered however and suspect that I received some brain damage in the process. I used, before the test, to organise large events coordinating many many people and timings without much of a problem and enjoyed doing it.

After the test and my 6 months recovery I have since that time not been able to keep many items simultaneously and although my memory is still good (at 60) recall on demand is very very hard and has been since that test done back in 1981.

I hope this helps someone?

Keep smiling

[jenn123]

Thank you for all the above posts. This board has been beyond helpful !
Bill, my 9 yr old child was diagnosed with HFI five months ago. She was diagnosed for fatty liver 7 years ago and had yearly ultrasound to moniter. At first the HFI diet made some symptoms better and some worse. After these five months, She seems to be evening out. I had unknowingly watched her experience so much for years and wondering what recovering from the fatty liver may even look like. Are there any posts or documents that come to mind regarding this ?
Also, she showed positive for HFI on the genetic test, which I understand identifies a few of the most common known mutations. How can I tell which form she may have - little Adol b or none at all ? Can this be identified by the type of mutation ?
Thank you very much and colormist, thank you again for the Cheetos 😊😊

[colormist]

How did the Cheetos trial go? Does she like them? Does her liver like them?

As for the mutation, I would talk to your doctor to see what they have to say about the mutation and which type she may have. Thought, honestly, with HFI I think it's better safe than sorry.

I did read Fred's medical report/research article and Bill's recollection a little low. Fred's dietitian told him that he could only tolerate 100mg a day. Given that he is a full-blown male adult, I would imagine that limit is lower for a young child. You can read Fred's story here (complete with pictures!): fructose-free.tumblr.com/post/16181198574/freds-hfi-story

[ukbill]

Jenn123
You would really know if she were a double zero.. in and out of hospital and total collapse after eating any amount of sucrose / fructose.. I have heard from one person claiming to have spent 2 weeks in hospital after eating 2 x olives..

However this was a person who was more or less living off contaminated glucose.. so your guess is as good as mine. There used to be a lot of really very ill people around the site some years ago.. all were eating massive amounts of glucose yet claiming their diet was 100% fructose free. Which is why I went and researched the manufacture of Glucose.. and found solid forms of Glucose can (and are likely to) contain upto 40% "other sugars" and still be sold as 100% pure glucose.. This is the stuff you will find in small smarties in the USA.

The glucose will mask the fructose load, however liver damage.. and kidney damage will still happen even if no other signs are visible. Even liquid Glucose will contain approximately 4% sugar.. and at that level it will definitely be masked by the glucose..

Sorry to bang on about this but its vitally important to understand. Dextrose seems to be proving safer but I have not been able to find any accurate description of its manufacture so I cannot endorse it as a "safe" product.

[jenn123]

Thanks for your responses. We are being careful and are sticking close to the diet. Thanks to you guys, We did read about glucose having other sugars, and only have dextrose. Will get a medical grade though. She primarily only has it during sports workouts as she is a competitive sports girl. She loved the Cheetos and would eat them all day if allowed 😊.

The comments about fatty liver and improvements after six months caught my eye and encouraged me since we are at the five month mark. It is interesting to read experiences and variations. She only throw up three times in nine years, so I am thinking she must have a bit of adolase b. She was very self selective though, just a few exceptions of fruit/veggies she loved.

She seems to be improving in the sense that her bloating is down, her eyes are clearer, no more waking up in middle of night or grinding teeth. Blood sugars are now consistently between 80/90. Still sweating at night. We have made a lot of progress. I am just really anxious to see more improvements, especially when we have the next ultrasound. I really want the fat off the liver .... yesterday 😝😝

Thanks for all your knowledge and experience. Truly would be impossible without you guys 😊

[colormist]

I still grind my teeth (had to get a night guard because some of my teeth were flat!) and sweat while I sleep. Keeping the house colder (68F) a night helps with the sweating, but that's just treating the symptom. I think some things never go away fully. :\

I hope you get some heartening results at the next ultrasound!

[lucky]

Jenn123,

Sweating at night:

- Hypogycemia
- Vitamin D deficiency


Sweating at night can be a sign of hypoglycemia but also *vitamin D* deficiency.


1./
Sweating:

Although it may be seen during the day, it's most often easier to identify the sweating at night when kids are sleeping and therefore stationary (and most easily monitored).

If sweating (mostly head) is from vitamin D3 deficiency, please also watch out for dehydration and/or electrolyte imbalance. They are huge dangerous metabolic side issues on their own, or resulting from vitamin D deficiency's sweating symptom.

Whether sweating from vitamin D deficiency, hypo episodes or even exercise... the loss of liquid and electrolytes can be compounding issues. It's dangerous if not corrected.

Look online into both ("symptoms of" or "dangers of" dehydration. Likewise for electrolyte imbalance) and if you are concerned, follow up with your dr.


2./
Dehydration:

Dehydration can make blood sugar harder to balance. Our son always was (and looked) slightly hypo when this happened.

Something like 80% of our hydration goes to keeping proper humidity for respiration. And almost a litre of fluid is is used at night just through breathing.

*Also.... scabs (crusts) inside nasal passages (nostrils) are a clue to dehydration.

Dehydration, if mild, can be corrected with extra fluids, but at some point, drinking is eventually not enough to rebalance if fluid and salts continue to be lost vs replenished (and balanced). And salts are needed for the proper electrical balance for heart and body function.


3./
Electrolyte imbalance:

The biggest clue is dried salt stains (white) on pillow sheets (fr electrolyte salts) or bleaching on collar rims of shirts. If you see these, your child's body is already losing salts that are needed in the body. Have a chat with the dr. to inform of concerns.

Have a Google search for:

Dangers or symptoms of:
-Dehydration
-Electrolyte imbalance
-Vitamin D deficiency


4./
Dangers of Vitamin D3 deficiency:

It is quite an eye opener and can complicate metabolic issues (and healing) if not in a healthy range.

Our son had this hidden issue and it took a consult with a Mitochondrial dr (and labs) to reveal it. It was literally missed by every other specialist before then.

I think the reason it was never looked into beforehand was that our son showed hypoglycemic symptoms and so that became the main focus. And, honestly, we were giving the "proper amount" of vitamin D daily.

What we (and all dr's below our Mitochondrial dr) weren't aware of yet was that new vitamin D daily requirements were just being released to the Canadian public. Basically, no one was getting enough with the old daily requirement amounts.

This was about 5 years ago. Now Canada has a higher daily requirement.

Luckily, a quick vitamin D test added to any blood work will give current levels and then a simple supplement can fix a deficiency over time.

In Canada, it's an added $30 to test (if not originally ordered by a specialist) as it's not part of regular blood work. Mainly, that's because as a Canadian, we are all considered to be deficient on some level so testing (for most heathy people) is considered redundant.

However, for those with metabolic or malabsorption issues (food nutrients and vit D might also not absorb as well), it's important to track. And if your child ends up being deficient due to a malabsorption issue or needing to track because of a metabolic issue, original testing (or future testing) is free.

Vitamin D has *many* important functions in the system. One is for growth (bone). Also, if it gets low enough, it can drag down iron levels. Recently it's also been linked to the onset of diabetes, I believe. And very low can cause heart issues. These are only a few examples. Have a look into vitamin D deficiency for more symptoms.


5./
How our body converts / stores Vitamin D3:

Our skin converts the sun's rays to vitamin D. Our body then stores it to sustain us over the fall / winter months. By the time spring rolls around we, in northern climates, have little left in reserves. This is also why we all look like we need the sun again. Tired, pale etc. And also why vacationing in the winter literally invigorates us. The sun replenishes our vitamin D stores.


6./
Vitamin D3 storage in our body:

Vitamin D levels in our body stores are highest after summer and lowest coming out of winter. Vitamin D also dips with growth spurts in a child.


7./
Vitamin D3 and sunscreen:

Everyone wants to be safe in the sun and prevent skin cancer. But the problem is that sunscreen blocks out 99% of our skin's ability to convert the sun's rays into vitamin D. By not being able to convert the sun's ray's into vitamin D, our body can not replenish all the vitamin D needed for longterm winter storage. Basically, without a full amount of vitamin D, there is less (or not enough) to last the "non sun" winter months. Hence, potentially serious deficency issues over time if the cycle continues year after year.


8./
Vitamin D3 reserves and the sun:

First, have the vitamin D level checked with a blood test. If it's in fall it will be higher because we are coming out of summer (and the body's reserves should be full or at it's highest). If it's in January to March, it will be lower. It also dips with growth spurts.

If your child is within a normal range (which is a huge range) then you are great. Just keep in mind which season (high stores or low stores) you checked it.

If not in the healthy range, talk with your dr on how often to re-check. We did it once after summer, and once at the lowest (end of winter) to see if supplement regime was working. It takes awhile. Now, we just check yearly.

Our original hurdle in increasing low vit D stores in our son's system was a potential absorption issue. Initially, we weren't sure if his raw / healing system was absorbing this vitamin fully. It improved over time.

Another suggestion, was to put on sunscreen when you reach your outdoor destination (as opposed to at home). That max 15 min of sun (not burning mid day sun) and/or the time it took for the sunscreen to absorb and protect (30 min) will naturally give a good vitamin D conversion boost.

Basically, be in soft sun times -briefly- (well before any pink of skin) for a few minutes before applying sunscreen.


9./
General vitamin D3 guidelines:

I don't normally post numbers but I will this time. Just remember, more is definitely *not* better when taking supplements, and testing for a baseline is always a must.

*Monitoring by a dr is crucial for every issue*

My son was 10 when we were given the below info. So it should be good (for that age - adulthood) for Canadians in general.



VITAMIN D3:
(amounts per day)

May - October = 1000 IU / day
November - April = 2000 IU / day


* Short sleeve weather = 1000 IU / day
* Long sleeve weather = 2000 IU / day



(Because my son was very low, we had him on 2000 IU per day through out the year till his reserves were better. *Only do this with the guidance of a dr.)


10./
Vitamin D3 - Lab work guidelines:

Last year we were given this quick guideline for our then 14 yr old son:


Vitamin D levels of:

25 or less = bad
25 to 75 = insufficient
76 to 250 = sufficient


*As always, please discuss every concern or change in diet first with your specialists.


11./
General Metabolic / Gastro healing:

After life settled down and our son was on the mend from metabolic issues and deficiencies, these are what helped the most:

- Vitamin C
- Vitamin D3

- Bio Gaia (heals gut)
- B12 (check levels)


12./
BioGaia:

USA:
www.biogaia.com/
Canada:
www.biogaia.ca/

Bio Gaia was a godsend. Check with your child's specialist to see if it would also be a benefit. We were told by our Gastro specialists that it was the only fully natural probiotic that was safe for our son at the time. They used it solely at that Children's hospital.

Bio Gaia is good for all ages -from infant to elderly. And although it's often used to combat infant colic, it's benefit works wonders for all.

Easy to use and convenient - 5 tiny drops per day in any liquid or on any food. Just ask for how long to use (or if daily till healed long term).

5 drops per day = 100 million healthy bacteria put back in the gut per day. In comparison, that would equal having to eat 100 yogurts per day to achieve that health benefit.


13./
Vitamin D drops:

D drops:
ca.vitaminddrops.com/

(-we use the 1000 IU per drop kind-)


14./
Vitamin C:

Yes, all people with HFI need it as a supplement.

Additionally, it is needed for iron absorption. Without vitamin C in the system, iron can't properly absorb. Since our bodies do not store vitamin C, it must be given every day. And instead of a daily amt all at once, absorption is better if given in increments through out the day.

At first, we divided a day's dose into 3 (breakfast, lunch, dinner). As healing improved (or health was constant) we dropped it to morning and evening. Now it's once a day for maintenance.


15./
B12:

Always good to check in blood work as B12 makes red blood cells. If low, it can lead to temperament fluctuations, fainting and a host of other serious issues.

When our son was recovering / healing, he ate a lot of B12 rich meat. He craved homemade angus beef burgers for lunch and dinner for awhile... and then just for dinner for months more. It was a HFI safe meal, very rich in nutrients... but the greatest benefit probably came from the B12 within it.

* His liver and health was beautiful from 6mo + on the HFI diet.

B12 is vital. Everything good (including oxygen and all vitamins / nutrients) are transported through red blood cells. Health greatly improves (and quicker) if B12 is in a safe range.

You can get it in tiny pills (swallow) or a type that dissolves under the tongue. Just check for it's use or need -first.



I mentioned these last few suggestions as kids with longterm Gastro flux undoubtably have damage to the gut. And as such, they most likely need a little extra help rebalancing deficiencies or damage caused by years of not being on a diet safe for them.

Hope some of this helps.
All the best,
Lucky

[lucky]

Jenn123,

Forgot to mention "Bone soup" as a tremendous gut healing agent...


BONE Soup:


Are you aware of it's gut healing benefits? It's actually extraordinarily helpful in healing and strengthening a body. GERD units actually recommend it for patients. Honestly, it's the best way to get massive amts of nutrients into a delicate (and perhaps still raw) system.

After having turkey or chicken, I make the consume out the leftover bones etc. Kind of tastes like a light chicken soup broth. Really good, actually. I now make turkey every few months just for the bones, lol.

Because the broth is so nutrient dense, easily absorbed and soothing to the gut, I often just serve it as a liquid to drink (as if tea). If I want it more filling, I add the leftover turkey meat with little noodles (homemade - they are made w/in 10min start to finish).

For sanity and convenience, I freeze the soup (in both broth and "meal" version) in mug sized portions (small 250ml plastic style containers) so it's handy to re-heat on days where my son just feels like some broth, a light meal, or when he's ill and needs safe, easy food (that also heals). He swears it fixes everything faster.

Let me know if you're interested and I'll put up a recipe.

[ukbill]

I get Night sweats occasionally and I am already on 2,400iu Vitamin D3 in olive oil gel capsules.

When young getting thirsty sent me Hypo straight away, not a problem now.
Bone soup is a good idea Beef tea is also good just get a lot of stewing beef and some dried herbs and boil it for hours and hours in slow cooker or on low heat until the meat is white or grey.. (feed that to your dog) season the resulting red tea coloured drink. It tastes great, if suffering from a cold add chili or paprika to clear those nasal passages!

[lucky]

Hi ukbill,

Good to hear you take vitamin D supplements. It's important for those living in climates like ours.

Have you, by chance, had your D levels checked in blood work? If you are not in normal range (or taking but not absorbing as well), head sweats can still occur.

Of course, there are also other reasons for sweating at night: hypoglycemia, over heating, hormonal (like women experience leading up to menopause). I'm sure there are even more.

But vitamin D deficency (leading to rickets) is definitely one cause.

[ukbill]

Not head sweats.. all over sweats.

No not had vitamin D checked. Used to get SAD (Seasonal Affect Depression) before Vitamin D3 now no longer

I think the Sweats might be fructose consumption related. It is very hard to keep below 1g a day although I occasionally allow myself to go to 2.5g (if I'm away from home and need a sandwich for example or a bag of crisps (chips in the USA). Not had a direct correlation between the 2 maybe cumulative over a few days?
I might be having the male version of Menopause at 60 years old.. however used to get them really bad in my mid to late 30's when I was positively eating far too much Fructose. To the point of having to change the bed sheets and turn the mattress because it was soaked through.. and NO I had not had an "accident" just in case you were wondering.. I very occasionally like a drink but never to the point of loosing it.



Keep smiling.

[jenn123]

Thank you for your responses.
We had a blood draw in the past couple weeks so will take a look at those results with all this in mind. She did crave salt like crazy before the fructose free diet, and definitely was sweating more at that time. Since beginning diet, those cravings have settled down. I think sweating has decreased a little too. It seems like something I will be monitoring for the duration.
If there is anything else able to recall from the early stages on the diet, would love to hear. For us, seems like the first 8 weeks was very up and down, then is smoothing out. All theories as well as applications are very helpful, especially to know that I am not alone (or crazy) noticing various symptoms.
Reading archives of people's histories; thinking of everyone's moms making accommodations to keep those with HFI and related disorders healthy until they arrive to adulthood. Lots of love out there over the decades. 😊
Once again, thank you much.

[lucky]

Ukbill,

My son used to be warm all the time when he was young. At home, he would strip down into the least amount of clothing possible. At night, he would overheat and sweat. All that (and night terrors -most likely stemming from Hypogycemia-) disappeared quite soon after his diet was corrected and deficiencies were addressed.

He first slept through the night at age 7.5 yrs old.

[lucky]

Jenn123,

Two other suggestions...

- Avoid oily or fried foods for quite some time. They are very harsh on a raw or recovering gastro system.

- If your daughter shows tummy issues with milk, temporarily switch to lactose-free milk. Even if a lactose intolerance test showed no issue with lactose. My suspicion is that lactose-free milk is just far more gentle on a raw or healing system. Did the trick for a few kids in eliminating mysterious lingering tummy issues.

[ukbill]

Oils can be a problem it depends on the oil.

I cannot take in any amounts Soy oil (gives HFI type symptoms) Nut oils (brazil walnut etc) Canola oil (yet for some reason UK sourced rape seed oil (essentially the same thing only cleaner and filtered) is safe.

Its easier to list the safe oils.
Butter / gee seems the safest
Pure olive oil (be aware most olive oil on sale is actually a mix of olive and hazelnut oil to cheapen it)
Rape seed oil and Sunflower oil.
All animal fats are safe as are fish oils.. although you definitely would not want to fry in fish oil!

If it lists "vegetable oils " assume its Soyoil and be safe.

Palm Kernel oil seems safe but is really bad for you it contains as much cholesterol as butter but has no natural vitamins in it (unlike butter) and to grow it the last remnants of virgin rain forest is being burnt down in huge areas and killing the few remaining Orangutans in the process.

I am not alone in having problems with oils.. seems to be a common problem with HFI people.

Keep smiling