Fructose in breastmilk

[nicoleh]

HI Lucky,
working backwards:
yes, the vit C and zinc and 100% pure Sodium ascorbate and Zn sulphate.

yes, is teething. however none of her other teeth, or any of my other 2 girls' teeth ever resulted in any symptoms. I DO think that it may be making her more sensitive to foods at the moment, maybe. I'll talk to my homeopath about that - they like that sort of thing!

I don't think i'd trial formula - I think I"d just give solids only for a day or two. (first, at least). You're right, you should be able to see a difference in a day or two.

Potato and other things like noodles etc I do desperately want to try, but I don't want to try ANYTHING while she still has diarrhoea. perhaps this is a pipe dream, but I just would hate to introduce something new while she was sick and not notice a negative reaction as a result. (or worse have her react to it because her intestinal lining is raw).

I know liver digests fructose and makes bile for fats. I really do think there may be a link there....

yes, mum was tested for HFI (only the one gene), but I thought you were only asking about FM. mum gets no diarrhoea (so no one thought to test her for FM); just the vomits and hypo. She's about to see the metabolic specialist in 3 weeks too.

I take 1000mcg B12 daily, and 2000mg vit C. The D I have been on 5000IU daily for a few months. they don't recommend supplements for the general population here since we live in sun city, however she and I haven't had enough sun last year (because she was a newborn and I was mostly at home with her, not outside) so we are on this regime to catch up. I would hope to see levels higher soon, then we'll take over with more sun come summer. I think I'll supplement D during the winter every year (just not this much). 5000IU is way over the RDA (which I agree is way too low everywhere).

Watch the vitamin C tests with your son too by the way, we have been told (at uni) that this test is particularly unreliable as the blood level fluctuates hugely from day to day. better to go by symptoms and just knowing you give a good daily dose. You probably already know that though.

I'm going to go find some more info on fat digestion issues.

Thanks again

[nicoleh]

Well the lab couldn't analyse my breastmilk for fructose, which is really annoying, and I don't know why. But they did say that my milk was much lower carbohydrate (presumably lactose) than normal and therefore lower calorie. I don't know that this means much.

The oils have also turned out to be not the culprit, and she definitely tolerates my milk with or without the oils, because she hardly ate anything on Saturday or sunday (we went camping and the food we cooked her in advance went dry and unappealing) so she ate only the fresh fish and chicken we cooked, and breastmilk (lots of it). Her stools were nearly normal on sunday and non-existent on Monday so that's a good sign that the milk is ok.

[kate]

Hi Nicoleh,

I'm sorry to hear the lab couldn't test your breastmilk. I know that would have answered some questions for you.

Given that your daughter was so much better on a diet of just meat and breastmilk do you need to revisit CSID as a possibility? I seem to remember that your daughter usually has corn or tapioca starch in her diet. Maybe that is the culprit if she was better over the weekend with no carbs at all in her diet?

[nicoleh]

Hi Kate,
it is possible that she is having some gut flora overgrowth due to the starch. I seriously doubt CSID because for the entire month of June she had no diarrhoea, no symptoms, and at that time she was having a few tablespoons of both starches every day. (and also everything else she is currently eating). Because this was ok in June, I'm looking at anything that has changed at all. All I can see is that I'm now buying eggs from the supermarket instead of from backyard chooks. So The last 48 hours all I've fed her is fish and cornstarch and ghee. Unfortunately last night's stool was atrocious, but I'm giving her one more poo to see if that's changed anything. If not, then eggs probably aren't the problem. I'll rotate her to 2 other completely different foods (probably chicken and eggs, to eliminate the starch and not have too much protein (eggs are a little lower) and try that. I'm also wondering, since this latest lot of diarrhoea (4 weeks now) started with a tiny bit of cream I gave DD, I do think that maybe it has triggered a casein intolerance which is also bothering her through my milk. the other thing that happened on the weekend is that because we didn't have refrigeration, I ate very little dairy, so that may explain her improvement. Actually, I think I'll put her back on her "normal" foods and try the dairy elimination first, since that will give her kidneys a bit of a break from the high protein of the last few days.

it's a puzzle isn't it? I'm sure you find the same frustrations. If it's dairy that'll suck a bit, but I should be able to get it fixed up - have done so in the past with 2 other girls. I love my dairy though - hope I don't need to do without for too long!

[lucky]

Nicoleh,
Did you by chance omit your vitamins on your weekend camping trip?

[nicoleh]

no, I take them faithfully or I get really sick very quickly. but good thought!

I'm also now more strongly thinking the dairy, as she had the hiccoughs for a half-hour after having her breast feeds twice so far this morning, and I drank a heap of milk yesterday and had cheese for breakfast and pork for dinner (pork is cross-reactive with dairy for many kids, and always has been for mine). i'll start dairy free tomorrow; one last hurrah today.

[kate]

Oh nicoleh, I feel for you! It's so hard and frustrating trying to work out what the culprit is. Your head goes round and round and round and has very little time to think of anything else. And giving up dairy is hard too. Were you dairyfree in June? I've had to give up dairy with both daughters. Now that my youngest is off the breastmilk and onto formula things are a lot more straightforward and she is much better (I'm not suggesting you do the same, but I just couldn't hack it anymore).

Hope you get her more stable soon.

[lucky]

Here's an additional thought...

Have your vitamin/supplement amounts been approved by your metabolic / gastro team? I only ask as you have mentioned others also (holistic ...). I know you are a nursing mother and have different requirements, but all except your B12 seem really high. Vitamin C in particular, as your daughter is receiving it seperately also (regardless if it transfers through breast milk -but especially if it does-).

* If she has loose stool as a main symptom, could that be an irritation?
* Any reason your daughter does not receive seperate D (especially if you are both low)?

(My understanding is that most breasfed babies are deficient in D and require a seperate supplement to avoid complications -including bone growth issues (rickets)- etc. And interestingly, receiving D from the sun still has it's limitations. Most of a body's skin has to be exposed, and well applied sunscreen effectively blocks out 90% of the UVB rays that are needed to convert into D.)

[nicoleh]

Thanks Kate,
no, I was on dairy on June (which is why I've continued it to date) but given that cream was the last thing she ate herself which really set her off, it may not be ok now, when it was previously. AARGH!!!!! DD is sitting on my lap and she just grabbed my (almost empty) glass and took a sip out of it. She often does this and I don't care if she sips my water but I wasn't paying attention and this was ..... MILK! She got a mouthful too. Oh gosh I hope she doesn't react as badly as she did to the cream. that diarrhoea was awful. Just shoot me please...

Hi Lucky,
yes the metabolic team have both (old and new) been over my supps and approved. The levels aren't really all that high I don't think! High compared to the RDIs but they are set so ridiculously low it's not funny. (funny you mention B12, I think that ones the one which is highest compared to RDI, not that I"ve checked. 1mg - I think the RDI is only a few micrograms isn't it?) anyway...

I have MTHFR gene mutations and severe chemical sensitivities which means I burn through methylating nutrients and vit C like there's no tomorrow. thus the amounts.

Vit C is not supposed to go through milk - I'm not sure about that one - but there have been plenty of days when she hasn't had her sup (because I was worried about it triggering/worsening loose stools) and also many days when I"ve forgotten mine as that one is less critical for me. no changes.

I don't give her separate D because I didn't think I"d find a tolerated dosage form. but we are re-doing that blood test next week and if hers isn't coming well up then I'll hunt around for something for her. I do think the D makes its way through the milk - babies are deficient because most mothers don't get enough either. at least I think that's the case, haven't checked all that thoroughly to be honest - I will, thanks.

we do a fair bit of skin exposed when we do the sun (all limbs, no shirt if possible). I never do sunscreen - makes you more likely to get and die of melanoma! We just never stay out long enough to get burned. I have a great book on vitamin D that talks all about sun exposure and sunscreen use and lists all the studies and their findings etc. really really interesting. sunscreen is responsible for a lot of suffering....

thanks,
Nicole

[nicoleh]

oh heck,
I just realised that I wasn't supposed to have been drinking milk at all! I did my usual breakfast milk on automatic pilot! That'll teach me to go to bed too late...

[lucky]

Nicoleh,

I think you may have clues between your camping trip, your other daughter's caesine issue, and DD3's recent bout with loose/foul stool after SHE drank some cream.

* Did you abstain from milk/cheese etc while camping?

That may account for your daughter's stool improving temporarily...

[nicoleh]

yes, there was less dairy on the camping, definitely.

I have been trying to do LESS dairy in the past few days hoping not to have to go completely without.....fail. I'm just not that disciplined. the last few days I decided to do the opposite as a test. ate more dairy than usual, especially cheese. yep, that's a BAD thing. she was up half the night last night, and the poos have gotten worse.

so I'm turning over a new leaf this morning and it's no dairy but butter for me.

it's so frustrating that she WAS ok with it until I gave her some directly. I really wish I"d never tried cream.

but I am hopeful - if she has been inflamed/reactive because of a low level dairy issue even prior to the cream, that could perhaps have increased the severity/reduced her tolerance to fructose? hope so anyway. If this finally clears up it's definitely time to try rice and some other HFI safe things.

[kate]

Hi Nicoleh,

Having had to give up dairy with both my girls I know how hard it is. But I also know from experience that you need to cut it out completely, even removing traces of dairy such as the amounts found in stock cubes and many crisps, etc. And it takes 4 weeks to get completely out of the babies system as it takes 2 weeks to get out of yours and then a further 2 to get out of the baby's.

I know it would be hard but maybe you should try doing this because otherwise if DD3 continues to have some minor symptoms it could be from the butter.

Sorry this is brief and poorly written. It's only 8 and we've been up for hours. Literally!

[nicoleh]

yes I'll remove butter if no improvement in a week. but my other dd's managed butter ok through my milk, after they were a few months old. I know sometimes even traces are a problem - just hoping to avoid that if poss. I live on butter! (I'm seriously underweight, so I have to balance my needs with hers too. butter provides a large portion of my calories and it's hard to replace without resorting to some sort of chemical spread).

thanks!

[kate]

Sounds like you've got it all thought out. Hope she improves soon.

[Catherine]

Realize it's been a few years since anyone took a look at this thread, but it's never too late for a little vindication. I'm a first time mom of a 3 month old and stumbled across this thread after googling the effects of sugar on breastmilk, after intitially searching coffee, and the major response was tons of articles now in the year 2019 detailing fructose FOUND IN BREASTMILK and the negative health impact on babies.

Really amazed by how rude and narrow minded the responses to Nicole were. "EVERYONE thinks like me, you're so annoying for questioning something that hasn't been studied but has been 100% confirmed by anecdotal evidence even though your own experience is not supporting it."

[lucky]

Hi Catherine,

Welcome to the board and thank-you ever so much for updating new information regarding current studies. It will be a great source of comfort to mom’s who suspect potential issues with fructose transfering via breast milk.