Medicine - Vaccines

[claudiarivas]

Hello!!!
Lately I have been worried about which MEDICINES I can give Carlos for the common cold, fever, diarrhea, ear infeccion ect...
He will go to pre school soon and I know they get a lot of viruses from other kids. The ped is asking me , what to give him in case any of this happens
and of course, I am seeking for advice HERE!!!!
please keep in mind he is 11 months, so he cant swallow pills yet---

Other subject is vaccines!! what do you guys recommend?

[shan]

Don't know what you can get over there but in the uk we have Soluble Disprol which is basically just soluble paracetamol with saccharin (ok) maltodextrin (okish) and sodium bicarbonate. It's made by Reckitt Benckiser Healthcare. There may be an equivalent over there.

WITH MEDICAL GUIDANCE You can always chop safe adult pills in half, crush them and put them in a bit of natural yoghurt or whatever. I've always found that the cheapest brands tend to be the safest -they don't waste money on sugar coating or fancy colours.

For ibuprofen I give my son the lowest strength capsules. He's 7 now but was (thankfully!)able to swallow capsules from really early on (about 3 i think). Very important if he needed to take antibiotics for anything so really big it up if and when you do try - give him hero staus if he manages to swallow one because it'll make your lives so much easier!

For coughs and colds don't forget external meds like chest rub, menthol crystals/oil for blocked noses. i also use one or two reflexology techniques and pressure points that are good for clearing sinuses. See if you can get a safe source of vitamin c too - Will gets his on prescription but that's the good old NHS for you!

Herbal teas can be theraputic too.

[Tammy]

We always used adult meds (with the Dr's OK). We just crushed them up and put them in Sugar Free Pudding. Putting them in mashed potatoes would also work.

Your Doctor can look the inert ingredients up in his PDF. (Phys Desk Reference). That way both you and he will know all meds are safe.

Just as a note, we've never found any kind of safe amoxicillian or pennicillian. Even the adult tabs have sugar in them as a base. We've always had to use other antibiotics.

Regina has always had all her vaccines. Again, just have the Dr check his PDF.

[charlie]

Megs had all her vaccines too, I decided the diseases were worse than the risk of reactions but it has to be up to the individual to decide on these.

I won't comment on pills for the US as different here in England, I found medinol here has lowest fructose risk. Also there are paracetamol tabs you can give once they are 6 years old and as already said, crush them up.

However big word of caution on ibuprofen if there is any liver damage in the child it is not recommended unless absolutely necessary eg to bring a high temperature down.

[ukbill]

As a child I had a bag of salt which was warmed in the oven and I put my sore ear on it when I went to bed.. the fumes from the salt worked wonders.. (old medicine)

I agree with Charlie about vacineations however I have serious worries about the combined measels, mumps and chickenpox vaccine..

I know a lad (18 years old now) with very severe Autizim (he cannot even talk now) who was perfectly normal and talking before he was vacinated.. and there is a video to prove the fact as well!

But this is a rare case and had he not had the vacination perhaps one measels would have killed him?? who knows?

I had measels as an undiagnosed HFI child and because I was not in good health it did me no good. It nealry had me so to speak. I was left with eyes that run in any sort of wind or brease and for many years I could not breath if I was facing into the wind.. it filled my lungs and I could not breath out.

I had Mumps and chickenpox as well. When my mother knew a child at school had any of the infections I was sent round with sweets so I could catch it also and get it "out of the way" so to speak.

Particularly Mumps which can be a serious problem for an adult (male in particular).

It was good to be the first with an infection you got lots of visitors..

[charlie]

The autism link is not proven. There is a boy at Megs school who is statemented and most definately Autistic. He never had any vaccinations................

[colormist]

I didn't know they had chickenpox vaccines. Interesting.

[charlie]

As far as I know there isn't one, they do mumps, measles and rubella,which is the combined MMR which caused all the fuss. polio, tetanus are done when they are babies.

[shan]

The LAST thing this forum needs is a thread about MMR and autism!

There is a chicken pox vaccine - Varicella. It's not routinely offered in the UK unless the patient is particularly vulnerable.

[lucky]

Hi everyone...

Actually, in Canada we do have a chicken pox vaccine. It is recommended for children 1yrs old and on. Almost 10yrs ago when our son was one, our pediatrician encouraged it, but felt it best to wait till 15mo (probably to not be bunched up with the 1yr vaccines) so we did it then.

This was almost 10yrs ago. Around 15yrs ago, our daughters were not so lucky. The chicken pox vaccine was not yet available in Canada, and unfortunately there was a vicious chicken pox strain that hit our community. It flew through the elementary schools in the area and proved very serious for many. In our neighborhood, our pharmacist reported close to 100+ cases in one week alone. It was an epidemic. And unfortunately, a really bad strain.

We were told that long gone were the pox strains of our and our parents' generation. Now, it was often showing up more and more serious...

Anyhow, children landed in the hospital in record amounts in our area. Some with heart conditions due to the severity of the chicken pox strain. Our daughters (6 and 5yrs old at the time) also got it. Didn't end up being hospitalized, but when our oldest had well over 100 on her face alone (and by day 3 became lethargic) she was given medicine to combat the debilitating virus.

She was very lucky... days later, we noticed a white dot at the edge of the brown (iris) of her eye. Almost like a pimple of sorts had taken out the color in that one area. Well... after a quick call to the optometrist (and them clearing out the office), investigation showed that the chicken pox had gotten under her cornea. On top, they knew of as rare -but- possible... but they were fascinated by it being under. Turns out it was also showing "branches" (like a tree) too... so it had tried to spread.

But because our daughter had already been given that medication due to her original mounting severity, we were extremely fortunate. After an hour long appt. we were told that the pox in her cornea luckily were now sterile, and the timing of administering the medication days before was a blessing.

The reason she was originally given it was because she became overwhelmed by the virus and doctors were trying to keep the severe from tipping over into needing hospitalization. But no one expected anything like this...

Anyhow, all went well. Nothing was needed to be done except a couple of extra eye exams in the days/weeks to follow, and to continue the remainder of the medication. She did have to stay at home longer because of the whole severity taxing her immune system... and now also to protect her eye as it healed (it wasn't painful).

As our daughter healed, the white dot disappeared and the original color came back. Every year since, our optometrist remarks that he is amazed at the timing of everything. Without her being on the medication, the pox would have damaged her eye. And quite possibly severely. Today... perfect eyesight still (at 21), and not a trace (or even scarring) from the pox in the cornea.

Huh.... -- fun times --

Yeah... so when the girls' little brother was born years later, and the vaccine was now available, we jumped at it. Apparently, it has been available in the states for many years, and pediatricians in Canada were petitioning for it to also be approved in Canada for some time. It was too late for our daughters' generation but wonderful for our son's.

We have been told many times since of the epidemic long ago, and especially the serious push for the vaccine afterward. I smile as I experienced both ages. Without vaccine (and vicious strain) and with vaccine protection. I prefer "with" as protection is always going to generally be safer...

And as a fun fact, our son will never have to worry of the potential for "shingles" in years to come. Shingles comes from the dormant chicken pox virus in the system of a person who at one time has had chicken pox. So if you've never had chicken pox (because you've had the vaccine), you can't get shingles. YAY!!!!

So, on the topic of vaccines...

I'm a big proponent of vaccines. Yes, there may be a chance of risk (and if I'm not mistaken, the autism/vaccine study was deemed inconclusive as it was potentially flawed?). But the reality is that a child is at far greater risk if not vaccinated --especially as their immune systems are still developing and vulnerable--. And truthfully, one who is not vaccinated (for mumps, measles etc....) is only temporarily safe because the general population is vaccinated and free of those illnesses.

But if more choose not to vaccinate (and on a large scale) the more that will eventually circulate -not vaccinated- in the population over time. Then the balance scales of safety in not being vaccinated will tip. All it will take is another epidemic (like in my simple chicken pox story) of something devastating this time, and it will overwhelm many -and- the health care system/hospitals.

So, we protect each other by others -and- ourselves being protected...

The reality is we live in a world where people can travel to far away lands or immigrate from one country to another. Planes, hospitals, and even schools have massive amounts of health issue "possibilities."

It doesn't take much to get a virus going unchecked. Just think of a student (say in elementary school) visiting family in another far off country, and then returning to the class after vacation. Anything could be caught between all the plane flights, vacation etc... and then brought back to a class of young children (most vulnerable next to elderly). It doesn't take much -especially in the younger grades- with poor hand washing skills etc -or- at an age where they will pick up anything and everything. Then what happens? Doctor visits (in crowded rooms) or hospital visits and more possible contacts.

Whether or not devastating health wise, spreading takes no time at all. And a glimpse of potential issues and spreading ability happened in Canada with the H1N1 virus a few years ago. Not by travel necessarily, but spread like wildfire... so it caught everyone's attention.

But that being said, I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs. A family should still have the ability to choose. So, if in doubt, I would recommend speaking to your health care professional concerning vaccinations. And then weigh the pros and cons of vulnerability vs protection.

Our children had all their vaccinations. But on a mommy level, I made sure (as best as possible) that they were healthy before receiving each one needed. And then breathed a sigh of relief that any concerns I may have had in the back of my mind (no matter how small)... were happily unfounded.

And other than a mild fever to watch, and lots of cuddles during... medically, each vaccination was unremarkable.

[ukbill]

OK sorry got my vaccine's mixed up but yes there is a chickenpox vaccine now.

It costs around a £100 $150 a pop (not on NHS)

I have been thinking about having a shot because all my family seem to get Shingles which is the same virus only effects adults differently than children and the infection can last for many months.. if not years!

According to my mother it is VERY painful. and it certainly knocked my brother around a lot when he had it a couple of years ago.

I am the only one not to have had them yet.. Mmm Wondering when its my turn.. ?

[ukbill]

Charlie, I know the link is unproven but you should see the video! It changed my opinion totally!

He was a happy talking bright intelligent child.. until he had the first jab.. after which he was less happy.. Just not smiling and had stopped talking however he would give his father eye contact and a little smile after repeatedly having his name called.. next shot was two weeks after the booster.. and he was gone. totally locked into his own world..

OK so It might just have been a virus of some sort which happened to catch him at the same time.. some sort of meningitis perhaps who knows?

Simple fact is before the jab he was a perfectly normal happy little chap.. now.. well that's a whole different story.

The combined jab is better than nothing but why oh why is our government still insisting on the combined jab when so many people are unhappy about it?

If it is so very safe then why did Tony Blair send his children to France for the separate jabs?

What is so wrong about the separate jabs? Could it not be a matter of choice for the parents rather than the combined jab or nothing??

Lucky I agree with your statement " But the reality is that a child is at far greater risk if not vaccinated"

You are not accurate though to the long term protection, it is possible to get Shingles even after getting Chickenpox.. both my mother, brother and sister had both!

And I know of many people who have had shingles more than once too, my mother for one.

Sorry Folks this is a UK type problem I'm mostly moaning about. Its one that a lot of conspiracy type paranoid people have jumped into and totally muddied the water so much so its now hard, if not impossible, to know a genuine fact from "hearsay" or plain lies and invention, of which there is a lot.

However our governments in the UK over the years have repeatedly acted in very strange and nonsensical fashion over this and made a lot of normally totally none conspiracy type people (like me) think.. and think again.. and wonder.. just WHY act that way?

Somewhere it just don't add up that's all. Most likely the bungled, bodged and just plain inefficient bureaucracy is to blame..As usual

Yes get your child vaccinated for everything! It gets my vote, only if you can get the separate jabs where you are in the world then why not?

[lucky]

Hi ukbill,

I'm sorry if I was not clear in my last post...

Our son was the only person in our family that had the chicken pox vaccine. When our daughters were younger, it was not yet available in Canada. By the time it became available, the only one who hadn't had chicken pox was our son. So he was the only one vaccinated, and now the only one who is also protected from potential shingles in the future.

We were told that the vaccine to pevent chicken pox is not considered 100%... but close... so there is little chance that he will ever contract it. Without contracting chicken pox, he will not get shingles in the future. Why? because you must have chicken pox in order to ever potentially get shingles. No chicken pox (because vaccinated) = no shingles.

Now we, and our daughters did not have the chicken pox vaccine. It was only available in Canada from the time our son was born. And because the rest of us (at one time in our lives) have gotten chicken pox, we still carry the dormant virus in our system and therefore CAN get shingles in the future...

Everyone who has ever had chicken pox carries the dormant virus still within them. Unfortunately...

I think the misunderstanding was that our daughter (when young) had to have medication during the time she had the bad case of chicken pox. The medication was not a vaccine (to prevent...as she already had it), it was to try and lessen it's severity during. And it is the same type of medication that is given to treat shingles. Very very potent stuff, and only given for chicken pox if absolutely necessary.

So yes, you're right... if you've ever had chicken pox you are at potential risk of shingles at another point in your life. And it can re-occur. Shingles usually happens if you are exposed to chicken pox (again) and your immune system is "down" through illness, stress or age (seen more often in middle age and beyond).

First time it is called "chicken pox"... next time it's called "shingles" ... and it looks somewhat different.

Like you, we are familiar with shingles. Years ago, a relative (middle aged) was misdiagnosed and had to go through it's wrath for an extended amount of time. Unfortunately, the medication that is prescribed is only effective in lessening the symptoms if taken within a couple-ish days after noticing eruption. Otherwise, you must potentially go through the whole thing at it's most extreme...

Poor man had to go the distance.... very very awful.

Now, unfortunately for us...

The very daughter that had the bad case of chicken pox (15yrs ago when she was young), got shingles last year (*only our son was vaccinated*). Knowing about our relative years ago, I quickly suspected what it was and got it checked.

Yup. Shingles. Even as a young adult. Apparently, she found out later that chicken pox was floating around university, and being under some school stress (and not taking vitamin C -which is needed with HFI diet-) lowered her immune system. So, that was a life lesson... and now she takes vitamins.

Luckily because she was young and her immune system was not too taxed, her shingles were relatively mild (as we caught it right at the beginning). So in her case, it didn't last long... but she did however get a lovely amount of meds to combat it during...

ukbill...

I don't quite know how you've dodged chicken pox (or shingles for that matter) considering your family history. I don't know if I'm more impressed, or a little fearful for you.

It may be worth some thought as to getting the vaccination if you have not already been exposed to the virus at some point. Perhaps consider discussing your "luck so far" and your options with your doctor the next time you go in for an appointment?

Stay healthy

[ukbill]

Lucky,

I had chickenpox as a child, I was sent round to visit a school frend who had it to make sure I got it to get it "out of the way" so to speak.

I am not sure how bad I had it (not as bad as your daughter however) and I had only a very few scars after as a result of scratching the blisters, even though I was told not to do this.. they really ICH! that I can remember!

Yes it was not until his early middle age that my brother got it and both my mother (for the first time) and sister while my mother was nursing her through her breast cancer.

My mother got it again shortly after my sister died evenrtually form multiple cancers that spread from the first one. ;(

Well it is in the family and she would insist on smoking.. "well you have to die of something " she would say.. err yes but not at 54 after 12 years of opperations kemo and radiology! 80+ years old is one thing.. 54 is somthing else.

So I recon they were both very low in defences for the first time they got it and mother was extreemly low after Linda died for some years until she found something else to live for

Glad to say she is 88 now and still living by herself and giving everyone an ear bashing from time to time

[ukbill]

Lucky,

I had chickenpox as a child, I was sent round to visit a school frend who had it to make sure I got it to get it "out of the way" so to speak.

I am not sure how bad I had it (not as bad as your daughter however) and I had only a very few scars after as a result of scratching the blisters, even though I was told not to do this.. they really ICH! that I can remember!

Yes it was not until his early middle age that my brother got it and both my mother (for the first time) and sister while my mother was nursing her through her breast cancer.

My mother got it again shortly after my sister died evenrtually form multiple cancers that spread from the first one. ;(

Well it is in the family and she would insist on smoking.. "well you have to die of something " she would say.. err yes but not at 54 after 12 years of opperations kemo and radiology! 80+ years old is one thing.. 54 is somthing else.

So I recon they were both very low in defences for the first time they got it and mother was extreemly low after Linda died for some years until she found something else to live for

Glad to say she is 88 now and still living by herself and giving everyone an ear bashing from time to time

[lucky]

ukbill...

Ahhh... so you have had chicken pox.

I believe there are two vaccines though... One for preventing chicken pox and one for preventing shingles.

Chicken pox (varicella virus) = varicella vaccine
Shingles (zoster virus) = zoster vaccine

In your earlier post, you detailed a quick family history and expressed an interest in considering the chicken pox vaccine yourself. Because the chicken pox vaccine is only beneficial if one has not yet had chicken pox, I inferred you had not yet been exposed to it. I now believe you were referring to the shingles vaccine for protection instead. If you have already been exposed to chicken pox, that's the one you want to protect from shingles. In Canada, it is now available for those 50-60yrs old and older...

Shingles is the reactivation of the varicella-zoster virus. Once a person has chicken pox, the virus lies dormant in the spinal or cranial area. When reactivated, it travels from there, through the nerves (depending where affected) till the nerve ends at skin level. It is painful because it transmits through the nerves till it can exit through the skin in the form of eruptions and then blisters...

You must have had chicken pox (at one time first) to be at risk for shingles. That is the medical push to have the chicken pox vaccine. No chicken pox (because of vaccination) = no shingles.

So, although the two viruses are connected, shingles is different than chicken pox, and very painful. And if you've already been exposed to the pox, the shingles vaccine (zoster vaccine) is one to be seriously considered.

Interestingly, any fluid from the shingles affected areas (blisters) contain the active chicken pox virus.

A person with shingles can NOT give another person shingles. BUT can give another chicken pox (if that person has never had it -or- has not been immunized). If you have already had chicken pox and then have been exposed to it again (through regular chicken pox contact -or- chicken pox fluid in the shingles blisters) then, under the right circumstances (health wise) that person is at risk to also develop shingles. And unfortunately, it is also spread by cough, I believe.

So, prevention is best. Immunizations may not be 100% effective for anything, but it does -if nothing else- significantly reduce the severity of issues and potential complications. Here in Canada, it is now recommended to have two doses of the chicken pox vaccine to receive approximately 99% protection. The reason is that there are all kinds of complications now associated with even simple chicken pox (depending on age). I know that a friend's teenage son was recently given preventative medication when he was diagnosed with a simple case of chicken pox. This was because, at his age (and on) there is a higher risk of pneumonia developing as a side issue.

Chicken pox can be mild or severe. Depending on strain, age, health etc... It used to be considered a "mild" and very common childhood illness with something like 95% of the public exposed by the time they were 30yrs old.

Yes, chicken pox parties used to be common and probably still are, but all it really takes is for a child nowadays to simply be enrolled in a relatively large sized elementary school to have the largest chicken pox party imaginable. By the time anyone realizes there is a spread (during incubation) it is loose. Hopefully -and most often- it is a regular strain. Our daughters just happened to be unfortunate to be caught in a nasty strain that overwhelmed hundreds and hundreds of children in a matter of a few short weeks. And that was just in a smaller area.

Unlucky for them. But another reason to consider (with guidance from a health care provider) vaccinations for all things damaging to children. Chicken pox is just one example. I chose it because it is a VERY common childhood illness that is extremely contagious. And yes, mostly without complications or severe virus strain. So, using it as an example shows how something can spread like wildfire.

Of course, it would be nice if one could pick and choose what issues our children will face, or with what severity the strain. You know, as in just enough of a reaction to chicken pox (for example) to have protection, but not enough to overwhelm... but you know...

But the reality is that all it takes is one strain of something (even the flu)... and it may change public opinion depending on it's severity.

By no means should anyone become concerned over any one story. It is just a glimpse of what health care providers try to shield the public from in the form of offering the options to protect ourselves through approved vaccinations. Hopefully, by being vaccinated one becomes completely protected. But if not, then at least drastically less susceptible to severity or potential complications... for any virus/disease.

So I agree with you as a parent. Consult your physician with concerns, but consider vaccinations as the best method of protection.

Now.... How does this apply to HFI?...

Well, indirectly. Every parent will one day have to face the issues/choice on vaccinations for their child. We all want to protect our children as best as possible. My only suggestion is to speak with your specialists for advice and council.

Personally, our only concern was the current health of each of our children before each immunization. It is something to be brought up with a doctor as a guideline.

I especially feel this is important considering the stage of health some children are in shortly after diagnosis -or- those still under heavy investigation for HFI (or any other metabolic issue/ health situation). An unbalance system that is very stressed or healing may be of concern until more stable. Other than that, we always followed the lead of our doctors and specialists. If they felt good about something, we felt safer too.

[charlie]

I suppose a consideration re vaccinations for HFI patients is how do you treat symptoms if the child or adult gets the disease. They are very limited with options for medication eg painkillers, ibuprofen to decrease temperatures and antibiotics should they get a secondary infection as most childrens medicines do contain some kind of sweetener.

Meg had chickenpox quite spectacularly in Thailand when she had just started a low fructose diet. It had swept through the nursery but she didn't get it, then the second wave came and she still didn't get it. We were due to go out to Thailand with my mum so we all waited with baited breath. Departure day came and no sign. while we were waiting in the departure lounge at Heathrow the first spot appeared on her shoulder. I didn't say anything as it may not have been. By about going over India she was covered all over her chest, as the flight progressed so did the spots so I sat tight. We landed at Bankok and luckily she stayed fast asleep in her buggy so I covered her up with a scarf............... Over the next few days she had spots everywhere poor thing, in her hair, all over her body. Most people thought she was bitten badly by mosquitos. But she was quite poorly with it, especially at night. Not being a seasoned traveller I must say this was one of the most stressful experiences. I had taken paracetamols and piritons with me, as safe as I could find but they still had some flavouring and sweetener in it so that added to the tummy ache. By the end of it she was running a bit of a temperature and I just had to risk the anti-biotics to avoid a serious infection. Being in a foreign country with a sick child on a new diet is not an experience I ever want to repeat.
I paced the aircraft for 6 hours on the way home, while everyone else slept as she really did feel poorly and kept crying and boy was I glad to get back to England. Good old Meg trust her to get the worse infection.............. Luckily there were no reports of a Major chickenpox epidemic in Koh Samui....................

Flu is another vaccine I am in discussion with at the moment, whether to put her on the list as she gets really bad colds and flu in the winter and again finding safe medicines to treat the symptoms and keep temperatures down is hard.

[Tammy]

Regina gets a flu shot every year. She just got hers last week. No issues for her. And every year when her dr carries the flu shot in - he has 2 in his hand. Doesnt even give me a choice. Lol

[Mimi]

I noticed that some vaccines have sucrose or other scary ingredients. For example, each dose of ZOSTAVAX contains 31.16 mg of sucrose. Is this something I should be concerned about? I don't usually worry too much about injections, just things that go in my mouth or veins. Have any of you HFI people had the shingles vaccination and survived?

[ukbill]

not yet.. but watch this space.. if i stop posting you can make your own minds up

Mmm Maybe If anything happens I will ask my daughter to warn you all to avoid it!